FP3 vs FP4MK

Hello

I have been the loving owner of an early motor-in-casting FP2 for a year or so now and love it, but it's a bit small for what I do.

I'm considering an upgrade to a larger model, maybe an FP3 Active or an FP4MK, likely sourced from Germany.

I'm not 100% sure on the main differences between the two and was wondering if anyone had any interesting insight beyond the obvious. What I think I know so far:

FP4MK has 100mm more Y travel
FP4MK has no Y quill
FP4MK has hydraulic tool changer (on both spindles or just vertical?)
FP4MK has more common 2080 tooling
FP4MK is a larger footprint
FP4MK has a larger fixed angular table(?)
FP4MK is (possibly?) quieter running
FP4MK has a cool analogue power meter (possibly the only difference that matters...)
FP4MK typically costs 10% more from a reputable rebuilder

Am I missing anything else?
Are the accessories or heads interchangeable with other models?

Thanks

Milo

Hey there,

good luck on your upgrade, you'll be happy eitherwise! (I'd want to keep the horizontal quill, so I'd stop at 3 if I ever upgraded...)

Thanos

ps. an fp3 won't give you extra X travel compared to your motor-in-casting FP2 (unless it's a very early model), but you already know that...

Biggest change going from your first gen FP2 to either the FP3 or the FP4MK is the sliding vertical head...Making it so that you don't need to remove the vertical head
to fit accessories or run horizontal....
Further the sliding vertical head allows much greater reach for the vertical head making both of the later machines have greater working envelope and flexibility.

Me, i would miss having the horizontal quill on the MK, so that would be a negative for sure, but the power draw bars (both horizontal and vertical) are magic and once you
have a machine so fitted you will be reluctant to go back to the manual setup....

Not sure it makes any difference to you,as i am not sure about the "MK" , but first gen FP4's will not directly mount accessories on the dovetail . They require "adapters" as the
FP4 dovetails are spaced wider...Not sure if this applies to the FP4MK's or not...

Given this choice,i would advance in a different direction....Would skip the upgrade to the manual machine and go directly to an FP4NC......
There you get power draw bars both spindles, a sensitive quill on the horizontal as well as the vertical....23' of "X" travel with lots of travel in both "Y" and "Z"...Everything powered
The accessories from the larger manual machines (FP2,FP3) will fit and you will get better accuracy and repeatability, power shifting with a wider speed range.....Easy to run as the manual machine if you get the Dialog 4 control, plus you can cut complex shapes. Forget that swivel base vise, won't need it.
Get one with the tool makers table and the possibilities are almost endless....2 axis tilt and a third axis of rotation.....
Only down side IMO is that you must account for the "large" electrical cabinet in your space requirements....

Cheers Ross

milohiscox said:

FP4MK has more common 2080 tooling

Click to expand...

Depends on the drawbar installed, probably 99% would have the 69871 ones installed, if I was to hazard a guess?

milohiscox said:

FP4MK has a cool analogue power meter (possibly the only difference that matters...)

Click to expand...

Require a fair old cut to even see the meter move. I wouldn't put much store in that feature, at least from a buying perspective.

Some of the CNC tables fit with the spacing, but generally accessories are less abundant.

Be aware, standard to a 415v country, Deckel supplied a transformer, sparky here mentioned it must of cost a bomb...in less polite terms.

An FP4NC you say... queue many days of frantic googling...

Yep. IMHO one of the best machines the Deckel factory ever produced....Two versions. Early starting about 1983 or so is what I refer to as a "camel back" machine having the support casting
for the vertical head mount on top of the "Y" slide.(like the late manual machines) Max spindle speed both horizontal and vertical at 3150 rpm....
Requires rotating the vertical head and sliding the support casting to the rear to run horizontal, or to mount any accessories.
Advantage to this design is that you get a little more vertical head room....

Later versions use a different "Y" axis setup, The Vertical head is mounted to a sort of hinge plate that is separate from the angle head protractor....
Here the vertical head can be "flipped" up and moved back over the "Y" slide for using the machine in the horizontal, or mounting accessories.

Nice thing about the "Flip Head" version is that you do not need to tram the vertical head when returning to vertical operation ....(closing the hinge) Further the flip head version has a different vertical spindle
heavier in construction and uses angular contact bearings (vertical) instead of the traditional needle roller setup.

Also the flip head machines have a two speed range (manual) selector knob that doubles the spindle speed of the vertical head to 6300 RPM....Retains the lower speeds (down to 36 RPM) owing to the two speed box.

Flip machines are easily recognized by the square top of the "Y" slide.

Controls come in different flavors. Most operator friendly is the Dialog4....Best user interface of any CNC control, ever!
Controls are slow by modern standards and don't have too many frills and wiz bang features, but they are easy to program , have simple graphics for proofing a program , some canned cycles and can run programs
using "parameters" where you can use math statements and variables to substitute for program elements sort of like an excell statement...

Will not do DNC form a computer unless you have optional hardware and software to enable....limited memory (256K) and limited number of program lines (9999)

Lots of Dialog 4 machines out there and the controls seem pretty reliable. Lots of help on the controls especially out of Germany.

These are full 3-D contouring machines and as such if the control is down for any reason the machine will not run......
Some sources FPS in Germany) offering examples ot this machine that have been retrofitted with current Heidenhain controls...a good step if you can bear the tariff....

Have fun with your search...
Cheers Ross

AlfaGTA said:

BillE said:

Depends on the drawbar installed, probably 99% would have the 69871 ones installed, if I was to hazard a guess?

Click to expand...

Thought all the FP4MK's were fitted out with power draw bars ,that allowed you to use the 2080 holder with the integral gripper groove at the small end, or you could use
CAT40 or BT40 holders when fitted with the correct pull stud...Same as the FP-NC's.
Cheers Ross

Click to expand...

Drawbar is probably overstating it, there's 3 items below the belleville stack that need replacement to run 2080.

Cool, thanks fro the clarification.
Cheers Ross