FP4NC Axis Overhaul (Large) - Page 3
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  1. #41
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    Sean:
    There are friction devices that have some adjustment on the handwheel shafts. The purpose ,i believe is to give the hand wheel some additional friction to help them stay put when in the manual mode and not creep from the reduced friction of the ball screws. Perhaps this is what the they were talking about. As to some other device on the machine , i can say with some accuracy that mine does not have anything else unless it is hidden within the servos......Got this machine pretty far apart so i don't see any mysteries in the "X" or "Z".
    Cheers Ross

  2. #42
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    Ross,
    What is the purpose of the long slot in the saddle that is parallel to, and perhaps 1.5" to the left of the surface you turcited? This is seen in your last picture. The bottom of the slot appears to be closed by an inserted piece.
    RKlopp

  3. #43
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    Rich:
    That slot provides space for a positieve stop pin. If you look at all the photos, the ones that show the face of the coloum there is a hole bored about half way down and to the left side as you face the way surfaces. I have removed a round peg from this hole that is retained by an allen bolt. The top of the vertical slide is open, but the bottom indeed has a stop plate to limit the upward travel of the slide. Think this prevents you from running the ball screw off the end and having the balls bouncing about. Also prevents the slide from hitting the "Y" axis. Of course the electric limit stops happen before you get to the positieve stop. A mote here is that ther are two types of stop plates i believe. One that is flat across the bottom of the casting is for the standard table. Ther is another type that is made as an inverted "T". The leg of the "T" sticks up into the slot to shorten the total travel. This arrangement is for the universal table adn is coupled with a different limit switch cam that also shortens the total travel. Since the universal table is taller than the flat rigid table you normally loose travel using the universal. Now a keen obsurver might notice that my stop plate is flat, but i have a universal table fitted...correct. In my wisdom i retained the standard flat table travels. I do not shorten the travel of my machine even though i am using the uni. table. I need all the travel my machine can produce. And often i need to work horizontal with a part close to the table surface. It is a safety consideration...I know that it is possible to run the table into the "Y" axis if it is overhanging the table..i know that and i avoid it. I need the added movement and i am willing to be careful with my positioning moves to avoid any collisions.
    Cheers Ross

  4. #44
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    I was wondering whether you could sneak into that slot a lube line to the newly mended places. Perhaps you could if you narrowed the stop pin or omitted it altogether.

  5. #45
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    There are already two lube lines that feed oil to each of the inside faces that locate the slide from rocking. The oil points are at the top and about midway down, i guess teh thinking is that the oil would move by gravity down the slide surface to assure good coverage. There were no oil distributation grooves down the slide surface and i intend to add this feature to my machine in an attempt to deliver the oil better. I am also considering replacement of all the feed checks on the oil lines as insurance and possibly increasing the delivery amount of the checks that feed the side guides.
    Cheers Ross

  6. #46
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    Looks like a lot of fun.
    Is there an adjustment in the box way for front to back? I have an fp4 and could not see one.

    thanks, wiz

  7. #47
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    Ross, as stated before (I think), I recall the adjustment being on the handwheel side of things, but I clearly recall the manual stating that the adjustment was to prevent overtravel on the axis.

    No claims here, just vague memories.

    Sean

  8. #48
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    Wiz:
    On all the Deckels i have seen that use a box way,the adjustment (front to back) is acconplished by grinding the "plate" gibs. These plates are made with two halfs across the width of the plate. On later machines the part that contacts the box way is fitted with Turcite. On earlier machines the plates run directly on the box way. At any rate the adjustment is accomplished by grinding the complete surface of the plate to make it straight and true. The part of the plate that tightens agnist the vertical (knee)slide is ground further to make the plate have a step. The step accounts for the box way wear. Think in a perfect world, the plates start out flat across both surfaces. On my FP4NC rebuild i am starting out with a .0025" step. The Turcite being proud. This will allow some distance for finishing scraping on the Turcite for final fitting.

    Cheers Ross

  9. #49
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    Just thought i would bring everyone up to date on my rebuild.
    Merek completed all scraping yesterday. Did a number of assembly/disassembly cycles of the "X" axis slide to the vertical slide. Tested the machine for alignment to the horizontal spindle in the vertical plane and horizontal plane....Alkso cross checked to the "Y" slide for the same. Merek did some (very little) correcting scraping and now everything is within .0001" in the 12"x12" or his granite squair cube. Merek followed the original grinding of the outside of the box ways (vertical alignment) which proved to be very good. I made a series of gages to use on the box ways to indicate the parallelism and flat as the scraping progressed. I have begun to re-assemble the machine. (this takes way longer than the disassembly )
    I sent my Heidenhain scales off for rebuilding while the machine was apart. Had the lamps replaced and calibrated, the scales cleaned and new seals fitted. I did not service the "Y" scale as it is less than a year old and easily removed should any trouble crop up.
    I spent the morning yesterday removing every oil line from the saddle (vertical slide) and blowing the passages clear. I discovered two hidden feed checks that i did not know were on teh machine. Interesting as these checks feed oil to the side gibs and the area of gauling that prompted this rebuild. Looks as though thes checks are working properly, but i did clean them before testing so i believe it is possible that they might have been a problem.
    Got the scales fitted to the "Z" and "X" axis yesterday. There are secrets to getting these out (X), hidden fasteners and the like. Also put the "X" axis table limit switch assembly back after hooking the wiring back up..(make a circut sketch before removing this!) Got the main electrical cabinet reconnected and the huge conduit back in place.
    Put the drive belt from the "Y" axis servo back in place adn secured the covers adn the way bellows. I had to remove the belt to allow hand cranking of the "y" axis when the power was down(takle the servo out of the system) and the cabinet disconnected.
    Refilled the oil to the hydraulic pump resivour and the spindle transmission. (all leaked out when the machine was on its side)
    At the momnent the machine has the vertical slide fitted and the gibs adjusted. The "X" slide is on adn the gibs adjusted. The "X" slide is positioned to allow access to the retaining bolt for the "Z" axis ball screw. (another secret)
    I have been cycling the lube pump to fill all the passages of the table and vertical slide. AStill some blue looking oil comming out and running down the ways.
    Today i hope to get the vertical ball screw in and connected with the servo. Also to install the "X" axis ball screw , set the preload and refit the servo. Then i will refit the work table (universal tool makers table) and tram it.
    Sorry there are no additional photos. Was way too busy with the work and trying to get Merek finished to be snapping shots..

    Ok so i know someone out ther is asking ...what did all this cost?
    Merek lives in Sunnyvale, and he made the trip to Corte Madera for a full week to scrape my machine.
    He worked full 8+hour days, from monday the 28th through wednesday of this week. He did not work on thursday , friday or monday over the holiday. In all 5 full days. Total cost for his services , $6400.00 I think he accomplished much in the time he was here. This much scraping would have taken me a year to finish.
    Besides the work, think i got some valuable information working with him. I would now be more willing to attempt this job myself should the need arise on another machine. I will be keeping my eye out for a power scraper... or not!

    Cheers Ross

  10. #50
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    Hi Ross,

    Just wondering how your FP4NC is running a year after your overhaul? Also any lube problems or
    insights? Your shop looks wonderful!

    William R

  11. #51
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    William:
    I am pleased to report that a year or so after the overhaul my FP4NC is working fine! The problems of stiction on the "Z" axis are gone and my positioning errors have gone as well.

    I have stayed using the Mobil Vacuoline 1419 (ISO220) way oil. I have written about this before and i am convinced that the Vacuoline is better for a box way machine than the vactra.

    I have taken to using more lube cycles both in manual and programmed modes. My oil consumption has gone up but i think a small price for avoiding any future troubles.
    The tvertical slide "rock" from the weight shift of the table moving to it's travel limits seems less now and more consistant over the entire "Z" travel.

    I was reluctant to mess with the machine as it had been so good for me over the years, but in retrospect i would not hesitate to repeat teh process or repair. Perhaps the only change i would make at theis point would have been to not wait so long when the trouble started to show.
    Cheers Ross

  12. #52
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    Ross I totally agree about using a little more lube and making a bit more of an oil mess rather than letting the machine self-destruct for the tiny benefit of reduced oil cost and mess. We have a 4" HBM with 120" table travel and co-owner "Dave" keeps turning down the lube via shortening the pump duration/increasing time between cycles, while I keep turning it back up. It's like a vicious circle and all he wants to do is argue about how much wasted oil and mess there is. Until a few months ago when a BIG gall formed on the x axis saddle ways. :mad:

    BTW, do you have a website for any of your auto work?

  13. #53
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    e:
    Used to have a pretty complete web site. Showed lots of work and cars we have been inmvolved with. Some bean counter in the insurance world stumbled acrss the site and went balistic as we mentioned "racing" (that is a big part of out business in the vintage world). The net result was that our carrier dropped out coverage and we were forced to scramble to find another source. The web site went away as it was seen as being too easy for the drones of the insurance world to find some reason to not insure us...got to have coverage when you are road testing cars that have high value. So as of this time , no web site to see!
    Sorry!
    Cheers Ross

  14. #54
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    That's just sick.

  15. #55
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    Wow Ross, that really does stink.
    I often try to explain to my friends what kind of work you do, and the type of cars your Deckel has a hand in working on.
    A webpage would have been really helpful....not to mention super-cool.

    Sean


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