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Fpnc table fastening Tbolts

legoboy

Hot Rolled
Joined
Nov 14, 2011
Location
Alberta
Looking for the factory type t bolts that bolt the reg angular table on the machine. Any one have a source? And as a side note if I can't find any I will probably make some t nuts and use studs so my question is are t bolts stronger than studs and nuts? Just thought I would throw that out there while on the subject.
 
Looking for the factory type t bolts that bolt the reg angular table on the machine. Any one have a source? And as a side note if I can't find any I will probably make some t nuts and use studs so my question is are t bolts stronger than studs and nuts? Just thought I would throw that out there while on the subject.

Bolts might be a little stronger in a fatigue sense, since there'd be one less place for stress concentration. But it's academic, because you're not in a fatigue situation, and you should not be tightening the bolts to the point the strength is tested. By the time you wrench down hard enough to test the strength of the bolts. you'll likely be damaging the T-slots and washer faces on the table wings.
 
Thanks for the link. They seem to have a nice selection. It will start to add up when buying one bolt at a time but it looks like quality stuff.
 
Bolts might be a little stronger in a fatigue sense, sincere there'd be one less place for stress concentration. But it's academic, because you're not in a fatigue situation, and you should not be tightening the bolts to the point the strength is tested. By the time you wrench down hard enough to test the strength of the bolts. you'll likely be damaging the T-slots and washer faces on the table wings.
Yeah I figured it was negligible thank you for the insight.
 
Franz Singer has these, in German they care called "T-NUTENSCHRAUBE". You can also find them on German Ebay for 3 to 6 Euros each. In my opinion, they are worth the price because they won't damage the underside of the T-slots and when used properly they won't break.
 
Here is another source:
You are correct though, it does add up quickly.

Hi Deckeleers,

A subject close to my heart. Having several machines available to use, each having different sized tee slots, buying this forged type clamping would cost a fortune. Although as Bruce has suggested buying the occasional one from Singer would be in order.

The clamping kits that are offered on sites such as fleabay are good enough for amateur use and don`t cost a fortune to buy. You should check that the studding cannot run through the tee nut completely, as if they can, when tightening up the stud, it may turn in the tee bolt and bottom on the bottom of the tee slot. If sufficient force is applied, this can lead to bursting out of the table!

The golden rule is to have the tee nut as near to or under the clamped item as possible, such as machine vice clamping lugs. There is nothing more ugly than having a nice machine with a table that has been vandalized by breaks in the tee slots. Luckily with our Deckels, another table can be substituted.

If buying tee nuts in quantity online this problem will come with the product, so to prevent disaster, before using the tee nuts, place them in a sturdy vice face down and using a punch, hammer a large indentation in the bottom two threads. This will prevent the stud from running through.

Again for amateur use, if the most reasonably priced solution is being sought, then by buying the tee nuts in bulk and using the galvanized studding found in every DIY shop. By cutting the studding to length as required, you will have no need to stock a lot of different lengths of studs and thus keep costs down. The clamping bars can be made from oblong cross section BDMS bar cut to length as required and clearance drilled for the stud. Use standard nuts and washers.

In the past I have bought some job lots of clamping that have been useful. Recently I bought a nice industrial cabinet that turned out to be full of clamping kit and some of it is correct for the FP1. Although I do use the methods described if necessary, there is nothing better than having the right stuff to use.

Alan
 
Here is another source:

DIN 787 Steel T-Slot Bolts | JW Winco Standard Parts

They happen to be right down the road from me. Quality is good, easy to deal with. I think they are a bit cheaper than the outfit posted by bsg. You are correct though, it does add up quickly.

I thought about Winco.....did a quick look and could not find them on their website?

I would suspect the ones Franz is selling are probably made in China?

Kevin
 
Hi Deckeleers,

A subject close to my heart. Having several machines available to use, each having different sized tee slots, buying this forged type clamping would cost a fortune. Although as Bruce has suggested buying the occasional one from Singer would be in order.

The clamping kits that are offered on sites such as fleabay are good enough for amateur use and don`t cost a fortune to buy. You should check that the studding cannot run through the tee nut completely, as if they can, when tightening up the stud, it may turn in the tee bolt and bottom on the bottom of the tee slot. If sufficient force is applied, this can lead to bursting out of the table!

The golden rule is to have the tee nut as near to or under the clamped item as possible, such as machine vice clamping lugs. There is nothing more ugly than having a nice machine with a table that has been vandalized by breaks in the tee slots. Luckily with our Deckels, another table can be substituted.

If buying tee nuts in quantity online this problem will come with the product, so to prevent disaster, before using the tee nuts, place them in a sturdy vice face down and using a punch, hammer a large indentation in the bottom two threads. This will prevent the stud from running through.

Again for amateur use, if the most reasonably priced solution is being sought, then by buying the tee nuts in bulk and using the galvanized studding found in every DIY shop. By cutting the studding to length as required, you will have no need to stock a lot of different lengths of studs and thus keep costs down. The clamping bars can be made from oblong cross section BDMS bar cut to length as required and clearance drilled for the stud. Use standard nuts and washers.

In the past I have bought some job lots of clamping that have been useful. Recently I bought a nice industrial cabinet that turned out to be full of clamping kit and some of it is correct for the FP1. Although I do use the methods described if necessary, there is nothing better than having the right stuff to use.

Alan

He's not looking for a kit to use for clamping to the table, he's looking for specific length tbolts to clamp the table to the machine!

Kevin
 
My 2 cents worth:

For dedicated clamping like the table or spiral milling attachment or vise i roll my own.....

Turn a stud with a head that is just a little thinner than the height of the lower part of your "T" slot
OD to be large enough to mill a square that will fit the width of your "T"....

Can make the grip length exactly what you need...Turn the step with a minimum radius so as not to foul the inside corner of the slot.....

I use pre hard 4142 or ETD 150 for these....very strong..no failures in years of use....

I use flanged nuts and hardened washers (available from McMaster Carr)....


As to regular clamping...For my use i prefer the "T" nut and stud setup. On repair work there are times where the ability to feed a stud through a hole or pocket is to advantage over lifting the [part up and tryiong to skewer
a stud through...
Also not a big fan of the forged type nuts on those one piece studs....many have large fillets at the corner of the "T" that can screw up your "T" slots...

For my NC Deckels i use standard "Bridgeport" style clamping kits (good quality) and narrow the "T" nuts slightly to fit the slots....Can be done using carbide tooling and assures a good inside corner.
Gives the advantage of having standard (US) 1'2-13 hardware (studs, coupling nuts and clamp nuts)....Which also fit the Kondia knee mill in the shop.

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Cheers Ross
 
My 2 cents worth:

For dedicated clamping like the table or spiral milling attachment or vise i roll my own.....

Turn a stud with a head that is just a little thinner than the height of the lower part of your "T" slot
OD to be large enough to mill a square that will fit the width of your "T"....

Can make the grip length exactly what you need...Turn the step with a minimum radius so as not to foul the inside corner of the slot.....

I use pre hard 4142 or ETD 150 for these....very strong..no failures in years of use....

I use flanged nuts and hardened washers (available from McMaster Carr)....


As to regular clamping...For my use i prefer the "T" nut and stud setup. On repair work there are times where the ability to feed a stud through a hole or pocket is to advantage over lifting the [part up and tryiong to skewer
a stud through...
Also not a big fan of the forged type nuts on those one piece studs....many have large fillets at the corner of the "T" that can screw up your "T" slots...

For my NC Deckels i use standard "Bridgeport" style clamping kits (good quality) and narrow the "T" nuts slightly to fit the slots....Can be done using carbide tooling and assures a good inside corner.
Gives the advantage of having standard (US) 1'2-13 hardware (studs, coupling nuts and clamp nuts)....Which also fit the Kondia knee mill in the shop.

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Cheers Ross
I have made t nuts in the past by machining a bar to the profile of the t slot then drilling and tapping the holes with a tapered tap and not tapping through. I then just cut them off to length and deburr with a file. So my question is how do the manufactured T nuts protect the table better than a nicely machined one? I also usually only use mild steel when making T nuts so the manufactured ones would be stronger. I guess in this particular case it may be worth the investment for the 8 bolts holding the table on but still it will cost me probably 150 Can by the time they are at my door. To put things in prospective the bolts holding the table on cost 1/5 of the price I paid for the entire machine....the economics of these old CNC's are quite hilarious when you think about it.
 
So my question is how do the manufactured T nuts protect the table better than a nicely machined one? .

Don't think they do provided the shop built "T" nuts are made carefully and with proper geometry.
As stated above think some of the forged bolt styles can cause trouble in having a larger radius at the intersection of the flat to the vertical of the "T" that and some i have seen don't have
the flat bearing face forged at a true 90* angle having some draft and that makes for a buggered "T" slot in time.

As to spending more for tooling and accessories, its always like that....Buying the machine is always the cheapest part of having a well tooled and functioning machine.
Cheers Ross
 
Don't think they do provided the shop built "T" nuts are made carefully and with proper geometry.
As stated above think some of the forged bolt styles can cause trouble in having a larger radius at the intersection of the flat to the vertical of the "T" that and some i have seen don't have
the flat bearing face forged at a true 90* angle having some draft and that makes for a buggered "T" slot in time.

As to spending more for tooling and accessories, its always like that....Buying the machine is always the cheapest part of having a well tooled and functioning machine.
Cheers Ross

What would be the cons of say building T nuts and using threaded rod as studs then plug weld them from the bottom to make T bolts, or if one didn't want to have to weld, drilling a hole for a roll pin? That would be easier and cheaper than turning the whole piece individually.
 
Cons would be the effect of welding heat on the hardness. When I make T-nuts, I peen the last thread at the bottom so the stud jams before poking through. That keeps the stud from jacking against the bottom of the T-slot and potentially breaking the slot. You could also stop the tap before reaching the bottom of the hole in the nut and accomplish the same function.

If you want to lock the stud to the nut, just use some good permanent locktite. No need to hassle with welding or roll pins. I can think of more fun things to do than drilling skinny holes cross-ways through hardened nuts.
 
Cons would be the effect of welding heat on the hardness. When I make T-nuts, I peen the last thread at the bottom so the stud jams before poking through. That keeps the stud from jacking against the bottom of the T-slot and potentially breaking the slot. You could also stop the tap before reaching the bottom of the hole in the nut and accomplish the same function.

If you want to lock the stud to the nut, just use some good permanent locktite. No need to hassle with welding or roll pins. I can think of more fun things to do than drilling skinny holes cross-ways through hardened nuts.

So the question is in the case of the angular table where there is 8 bolts fastening the table and they are seldom removed does the hardening offer a significant advantage to using mild steel? There is also a couple of keys the table uses for alignment which add to the sheer strength.
 
Franz Singer has these, in German they care called "T-NUTENSCHRAUBE". You can also find them on German Ebay for 3 to 6 Euros each. In my opinion, they are worth the price because they won't damage the underside of the T-slots and when used properly they won't break.

Is there a way to view his ebay store in English?
 
So the question is in the case of the angular table where there is 8 bolts fastening the table and they are seldom removed does the hardening offer a significant advantage to using mild steel? There is also a couple of keys the table uses for alignment which add to the sheer strength.

There's no particular advantage over mild steel, but my pride would make me use something stronger. Besides, it's easier to get a pretty finish on harder steel (within reason) compared to mild steel. Check out the nice finish on Ross' bolt in the pics above. That could be tough to achieve on 1018.
 
There's no particular advantage over mild steel, but my pride would make me use something stronger. Besides, it's easier to get a pretty finish on harder steel (within reason) compared to mild steel. Check out the nice finish on Ross' bolt in the pics above. That could be tough to achieve on 1018.

You have a valid point there.
 








 
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