FS, Deckel FP2 40 Taper High Speed Head, Need Help With Price?

Like the title says, looking to sell a 40 taper spindle high speed head. I'm trying to come up with what a reasonable price for it would be?

The head is in good condition, it has been repainted and has some chips from being moved around on a shelf.

This is not the latest version of the Deckel high speed heads, maybe the second to the last version?

I will post pic's when I get home. I will also post it in the for sale section once I have settled on a price..........

Kevin

Do you mean the long range head ? Seems like high speed heads would have a smaller taper spindle. What color is it ? The last posts in the for sale section here was for an older high speed head, which ended up selling for 700 Euro I think.

Later high speed heads came with the 40 taper....think Deckel moved to have all accessories have the 40 taper spindles..Not sure whan that happened and of course there would
for sure be some cross over....

Does your head have the locking pin on the spindle rotation to ease the collet change?
If no pin i would guess (without seeing any photos) about $1300.00 plus...
If it has the lock then higher...$15-1800. But that is just my guess.

Cheers Ross

High speed heads are eighter NT 40 or those rare 16x2 collets
Set of Collets Deckel M16x1.2mm | Veltman Machines
Never saw a high speed head with the S20x2 collets or MT4
Every time I took apart a spindle of a high spead head the races were bad
6000RPM is too fast for needle bearings perhaps ?

Peter

Milacron said:

Do you mean the long range head ? Seems like high speed heads would have a smaller taper spindle. What color is it ? The last posts in the for sale section here was for an older high speed head, which ended up selling for 700 Euro I think.

Click to expand...

This one is Deckel Green, but it was repainted, unsure if it was originally grey?

AlfaGTA said:

Later high speed heads came with the 40 taper....think Deckel moved to have all accessories have the 40 taper spindles..Not sure whan that happened and of course there would
for sure be some cross over....

Does your head have the locking pin on the spindle rotation to ease the collet change?
If no pin i would guess (without seeing any photos) about $1300.00 plus...
If it has the lock then higher...$15-1800. But that is just my guess.

Cheers Ross

Click to expand...

This does not have the pin like the later heads, still trying to figure out how to lock the spindle? Looks like there may be a wrench that is needed to hold the spindle?

Kevin

Hi Kevin,

bsg said:

This does not have the pin like the later heads, still trying to figure out how to lock the spindle? Looks like there may be a wrench that is needed to hold the spindle?

Click to expand...

This is the wrench that is needed:

Schlussel fur Schnelllaufer - Deckel Frasmaschine | eBay

In Germany I estimate that an FP2 SK40 high-speed head in good condition would probably bring 700-1200 Euros depending upon condition and the patience of the seller.

Cheers,
Bruce

ballen said:

Hi Kevin,



This is the wrench that is needed:

Schlussel fur Schnelllaufer - Deckel Frasmaschine | eBay

In Germany I estimate that an FP2 SK40 high-speed head in good condition would probably bring 700-1200 Euros depending upon condition and the patience of the seller.

Cheers,
Bruce

Click to expand...

Thanks Bruce,

Yes, that's is the wrench that is needed for this head, unfortunately I don't have one!


Here are some pic's of the head:

Some more pic's;

A couple more..........



The head is the earlier style with NT 40 spindle.

Currently missing the belt and wrench for tightening the collets, motor is dual voltage, 220/380.
The previous owner repainted the head, it has nicks and scratches from handling and a dent in the motor cover.


I would like to get $1375 for the head the way it sits?

Any questions or opinions?


Kevin

bsg said:

The head is the earlier style with NT 40 spindle.

Currently missing the belt and wrench for tightening the collets, motor is dual voltage, 220/380.
The previous owner repainted the head, it has nicks and scratches from handling and a dent in the motor cover.


I would like to get $1375 for the head the way it sits?

Any questions or opinions?


Kevin

Click to expand...

Not having a belt would imply you've never run it.....which begs the question how do you know the spindle bearings are ok at higher speeds ?

Milacron said:

Not having a belt would imply you've never run it.....which begs the question how do you know the spindle bearings are ok at higher speeds ?

Click to expand...

Don,

I have not run it yet, just checked by rotating the motor and spindle by hand.
I'm going to install a belt from one of my other high speed heads, that should confirm my initial inspection.....I will update this post once that is done.

Kevin

Peter from Holland said:

High speed heads are eighter NT 40 or those rare 16x2 collets
Set of Collets Deckel M16x1.2mm | Veltman Machines
Never saw a high speed head with the S20x2 collets or MT4
Every time I took apart a spindle of a high spead head the races were bad
6000RPM is too fast for needle bearings perhaps ?

Peter

Click to expand...

Peter,
I hate to hijack a thread but after reading you're post I am now curious; Does this mean the SK40 High Speed spindle is the same one used in the geared vertical head? I ask because I have one (never took it apart) and thought Deckel may have put ball bearings in them for high speed use. If it turns out they are the same thing that means I have a spare head.
I also have a older one that takes the 16MM collets that works well, the manual I have shows lubricating it with ISO 68 oil through 2 points. Do you know if it has ball bearings in it?
Dan

bsg said:

Like the title says, looking to sell a 40 taper spindle high speed head. I'm trying to come up with what a reasonable price for it would be?

The head is in good condition, it has been repainted and has some chips from being moved around on a shelf.

This is not the latest version of the Deckel high speed heads, maybe the second to the last version?

I will post pic's when I get home. I will also post it in the for sale section once I have settled on a price..........

Kevin

Click to expand...

Kevin,
I think that head is also is the same for an FP1, don't think there is any difference.
Dan

bsg said:

I would like to get $1375 for the head the way it sits?


Any questions or opinions?

Click to expand...

I presume the wire cable and special plug to connect to the Deckel electrical box are long lost ? No big deal if so, but just curious.

Hi Deckeleers,

This purchase of an FP2 high speed head may throw some light on some of the details of Kevin`s high speed head.



The part number stamped on the body casting is 2020/1907. Here i`m presuming that 2020 is the model No. and 1907 the sequence number of the head which means that as Kevin`s head is numbered 2066, so my head is 159 earlier.

The spindle taper is N40 and has the slots for holding the spindle.



In this photo you can see that this head has the top cover missing and that there are ball bearings within.

This head is not for sale and if I can`t find a spare top cover then I will have to make one but am not sure what material is required to make it. This material could be Aluminium or steel, i`ve looked at the cross section drawings in the spare parts manuals but these do not state what materials the parts are made from!

There is an interesting story behind this Ebay UK purchase made several years ago. I tried to research the purchase details on my ebay purchase history but this only goes back to 2016 so the purchase was probably made in 2015.

If my memory is correct, he seller listed an FP2 dividing head which was missing some small parts but came with the overarm and Imperial arbors, which I won for £300. Then he listed the casting of the body of the high speed head separately from the head itself and then after a few days the head. I bid on the body which I thought could be used to mount a Bridgeport "M" type head on by making a suitable adapter. Then I bid on the head itself and won it for £320.

As I had bought two items the seller then threw in the body casting for free.

The Casing, motor and pulley were missing but Eric from Denmark was able to organize the sale of these items to me from a friend of his that had converted his high speed head to electronic control and did not need them.

The motor is the standard dual voltage Siemens item as Kevin`s and this has a keyed shaft but the pulley, which is used and looks correct, does not have a keyway in the bore! I`m not complaining about this, just curious. Perhaps it`s from an FP1 High speed head. The paint on the motor and cover matches the body and head.

The seller, a very nice gentleman told me when I went to pick up the items in Wolverhampton, that these parts were all that remained from two FP2`s that had been scrapped by the company that he works for. On inspection I can see that these items have had very little use and have just been badly stored for many years.

Alan

Milacron said:

I presume the wire cable and special plug to connect to the Deckel electrical box are long lost ? No big deal if so, but just curious.

Click to expand...

Unfortunately I don’t have the cable or plug.

Update, I put power to the motor and went thru a warmup of the motor and spindle, unknown at this point how long the head had been sitting? I started at the slowest speed, ran each speed for ten minutes until I was up to the highest speed, 6000 rpm,

The spindle and motor are smooth and quiet......here’s a couple quick videos of it running at 6000 rpm, and 1900 rpm.



The spindle never got hot, you could put your hand on the housing near the upper bearing and it was warm as would be expected!

One curiosity I never noticed on the Deckel high speed heads, the motor pulley has four V’s, the front only 3 V’s, so the belt is actually run at an angle depending on speed selection?

One other thing, the newer heads use a longer belt than the older ones?

I don’t have the correct belt for this head unfortunately.

Danny VanVoorn said:

Kevin,
I think that head is also is the same for an FP1, don't think there is any difference.
Dan

Click to expand...

Yes, Dan this head wil fit FP1, FP2 and the late model FP3!

Kevin

bsg said:

Yes, Dan this head wil fit FP1, FP2 and the late model FP3!

Kevin

Click to expand...

Hi Deckeleers,

Just to support Kevin`s statement, below is a photo of my FP2 high speed head body fitted to my FP1. This has the advantage that it will extend the head beyond the front of the table if required.



Alan

bsg said:

Yes, Dan this head wil fit FP1, FP2 and the late model FP3!

Kevin

Click to expand...

Not exactly true....The later design machines (FP2, FP3) have vertical heads that slide back to reveal the mounting for the accessory. On those machines (all FP3's i believe) the vertical head assembly stays on the machine
and thereby reduces the space available for the accessory...In the case of this high speed head the base casting would be too long and when mounted would have excessive overhang to
be used on the FP3 and late FP2's, FP1's
For example,on an FP3 with the vertical head fully retracted there is only 330 mm (13") of length from the head to the front face of the "Y" slide available for the mounting an accessory....
Of course one could always shorten the base casting...but the correct high speed head for the later machines comes with a shorter base casting.....

Cheers Ross

AlfaGTA said:

Not exactly true....The later design machines (FP2, FP3) have vertical heads that slide back to reveal the mounting for the accessory. On those machines (all FP3's i believe) the vertical head assembly stays on the machine
and thereby reduces the space available for the accessory...In the case of this high speed head the base casting would be too long and when mounted would have excessive overhang to
be used on the FP3 and late FP2's, FP1's
For example,on an FP3 with the vertical head fully retracted there is only 330 mm (13") of length from the head to the front face of the "Y" slide available for the mounting an accessory....
Of course one could always shorten the base casting...but the correct high speed head for the later machines comes with a shorter base casting.....

Click to expand...

Yep....the final generation Deckels had a special high speed head just for the FP1 due to that issue. The FP2 and larger high speed heads used a shorter ram. Interestingly even with shorter ram, the FP2 and larger high speed heads were much heavier.... 96 lbs (FP1) vs 156 lbs (FP2+) !

I wonder if the extra weight of the FP2+ high speed head was simply taller and more stout ram, or the head itself was larger, or combination of both ? Motor Kw was the same for both types, so one would think the motors were the same weight at least.

As I don't have much Deckel literature for the older machines, was there a separate high speed head assembly for the FP1 before the final generation machines ? (i.e. with shorter ram, just to save weight if nothing else)

Another consideration is on the older machines one would have to run the spindle gearing anyway just to have power axis feed, whereas on the final generation machines one could use the DC axis drives separately for a quieter running situation.

FYI:
Late version High speed head...FP2-FP3..FP-NC
Note more rectangular/angular shape.


Cheers Ross