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  1. #81
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    I finished making the adapter plate today. First measured the tapered retaining holes by turning a plug and adjusting the dimensions for good fit, using a felt marker to assess the contact:



    For the record, to reproduce this, you drill a 6.9mm hole 8mm deep, then use a taper angle of 19.5 degrees which is a 39 degree included angle (closest I could measure it with my lathe compound) widening out to 9.5mm diameter at the surface. The hole centerline should be offset 9.8mm from the face where the accessory flange registers.

    While I was hunting for a suitable bit of HSS to make a D-bit, I realised that I could just modify a 9.5mm slot cutter, so did that. I ground the end to 39 degrees included then relieved behind the cutting edge as close as I dared. It worked very well.



    Here's one of the taper holes:



    and here's an accessory clamped in place with two holding screws.



    It is very rigid -- I'll make a couple of brass or copper tipped clamp screws for other two holes, but doubt that it's really needed.

    One that's done, I'll play around with my 3 and 4 jaw dividing head chucks to see how how true they run. But I'm optimistic that this is going to work out well.

  2. Likes AlfaGTA, rimcanyon, thanvg liked this post
  3. #82
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    I've been too busy to spend much time in the shop recently, but did test the adaptor plate a bit more. The first thing I found was that the two-jaw chuck was badly off-center. In fact it's so badly off center that the problem must lie with the way that the individual jaws are set with respect to the spindle. So another thing that needs to be fixed.

    The three- and four-jaw chucks were much better. (Note: the Deckel four-jaw chucks are "German" style, meaning that they have a spiral scroll so are not individually-adjustable.) When I first put on the three-jaw, my heart sank, because it was about 0.1mm = 0.004" off center. But it just took a minute to clock this in via the four clamping screws.



    I have realised that there is one clear disadvantage of the Hermle universal table, when compared with the standard Deckel dividing head mounted on the vertical table. In the latter setup, the distance from the rotational centerline to the face of the headstock is much less. With the Hermle, the *minimum* distance between the rotational axis and the face of the headstock is about 170 cm. So it's only possible to use the horizontal head near the axis if you have tooling with a long stickout or extend the horizontal quill. The Deckel dividing head must get at least 100 or 150mm closer.

  4. #83
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    Don't quite understand your comments about the distance to the rotational centerline....your writing seems to contradict itself....
    At any rate ,almost never mount the dividing head on the vertical table...Don't need to muck about lifting off the table, running a job and then re-mounting the table....
    That would only be acceptable if you had a long run of nothing but dividing head work to do....Rarely the case for me.
    I mount the dividing head directly to the horizontal work table...no issues with reach or fit....I also own the Deckel stand alone tailstock for the dividing head which is also designed to table mount....
    Easy on easy off.....

    Never herd the term "German Style" to describe a "Universal" 4 jaw......
    Cheers Ross

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    Hi Ross,

    Quote Originally Posted by AlfaGTA View Post
    Don't quite understand your comments about the distance to the rotational centerline....your writing seems to contradict itself.
    Sorry that I wasn't clear. I meant the following...

    If you move Y as far as possible towards the vertical rotation axis of the Hermle table, the closest you can get to that axis is about 170mm, measured from the face of the horizontal spindle. (Since the Y travel is 200mm, if you move Y in the other direction, the horizontal spindle is about 370mm from the rotation axis.) This makes it difficult to use the horizontal spindle on small parts clamped on the vertical rotation axis.

    When the Deckel dividing head mounted to the vertical table (a standard catalog setup) the horizontal spindle can get much closer to the dividing head vertical rotation axis.

    Never herd the term "German Style" to describe a "Universal" 4 jaw.
    That's exactly the point. My Deckel 4-jaw chuck is NOT a universal type. It does not have 4 separately adjustable jaws. Instead, it has a spiral scroll, and all 4 jaws move together. This seems to be quite standard in Germany, whereas in the US a 4-jaw chuck generally has four independent jaws.

    Cheers,
    Bruce

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    Well, we might call your chuck "a European thing", as Pratt-burnerd made those for many years. And TOS. Even the Chinese.

    I would call the 3- and 4-jaw chucks having both scroll and individual adjustable jaws for "universal chucks"

    I had one of those (Röhm) and I stupidly sold it.

    Cheers
    Erik

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    Quote Originally Posted by ballen View Post
    ...

    When the Deckel dividing head mounted to the vertical table (a standard catalog setup) the horizontal spindle can get much closer to the dividing head vertical rotation axis....

    ... My Deckel 4-jaw chuck is NOT a universal type. It does not have 4 separately adjustable jaws. Instead, it has a spiral scroll, and all 4 jaws move together. This seems to be quite standard in Germany, whereas in the US a 4-jaw chuck generally has four independent jaws...
    Regarding the indexer, I think Bruce's issue is that the axis of rotation of the Hermle indexer is further away from the face of the vertical table (and, the column, and the face of the horizontal spindle) than the Deckel indexer.

    Regarding the chuck, I think the term is '4 jaw independent' VS '4 jaw scroll'. I never considered four jaw scrolls special, more contact points than 3-jaw scrolls, less than 6-jaw scrolls.

    Quote Originally Posted by Erik View Post
    ...

    I would call the 3- and 4-jaw chucks having both scroll and individual adjustable jaws for "universal chucks"

    I had one of those (Röhm) and I stupidly sold it.
    ...
    And how was this Erik? Does it's existence make sense (more than a 'set-tru' for example)? The idea is 'use it as a regular scroll chuck but have the option to dial it in if you need to?'. My mate Kyriakos brought me one but it's a real monster (much bulkier than my everyday 10" 3jaw) and never felt the urge to mount it...

    BR,
    Thanos

  8. #87
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    Well as far as i have been taught here in the US there are two major types of chucks..
    "Universal" and "Independent"
    If it has a scroll its "Universal"
    If each jaw is adjusted separately its "Independent"

    There are combo (Hybrid) setups that have a scroll and individually adjustable jaws......

    Mounting schemes vary as well...Adjust true mounts are only really applicable to "universal" style chucks, as true running work on an independent is accomplished via the individual jaws.

    Cheers Ross

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    Hi Ross,

    Quote Originally Posted by AlfaGTA View Post
    Well as far as i have been taught here in the US there are two major types of chucks..
    "Universal" and "Independent"
    If it has a scroll its "Universal"
    If each jaw is adjusted separately its "Independent"
    Thanks for setting me straight on this. I thought that "Universal" meant independent adjustment for each jaw, since that can hold any shape.

    Cheers,
    Bruce

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    Quote Originally Posted by thanvg View Post
    And how was this Erik? Does it's existence make sense (more than a 'set-tru' for example)? The idea is 'use it as a regular scroll chuck but have the option to dial it in if you need to?'
    Hi Thanos.

    It was a 3- or 4-jaw scroll chuck (both can be had)with two-part jaws. Those can be adjusted individually.

    Geared scroll chucks and individual jaw adjustment - Rohm clamping devices : drill chucks, lathe chucks, HSK tools

    It just gives the owner more possibilities. I had it in 160mm size and I shold have kept it. A Set-Rite or Grip-Tru is expensive.

    Cheers
    Erik

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    Quote Originally Posted by Erik View Post
    Hi Thanos.

    It was a 3- or 4-jaw scroll chuck (both can be had)with two-part jaws. Those can be adjusted individually.

    Geared scroll chucks and individual jaw adjustment - Rohm clamping devices : drill chucks, lathe chucks, HSK tools

    It just gives the owner more possibilities. I had it in 160mm size and I shold have kept it. A Set-Rite or Grip-Tru is expensive.

    Cheers
    Erik
    I might give it a shot...


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