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How to setup Dialog 4 for DNC

Milos

Plastic
Joined
Feb 28, 2005
Location
SERBIA
Hello

I am owner of a DECKEL FP 4 NC machine with Dialog 4 control unit and I am so free to ask for help in the following: I am interested in what way I could set up the control unit and the programme in the computer so that I could effect an constantly programmentering through 1 MB. (how to set machine for DNC communication)

I wish to thank You in advance for Your effort and spent time and would appreciate if You will be able to help me.

Milos
 
Milos:
The Dialog4 control is capible of running under "Deckel DNC". I have this feature on my FP4NC with a Dialog4 control.
Here is how it works: First you need to know that commercial software from 3rd patry companies will not work with the Dialog4 control with a few exceptions.
The first thing you need is a new communications board for the control unless the machine is already fitted with one. The hardware (option) controls the DNC function and the standard machine did not have this unless it was ordered as an option.
The second thing you need is special software that can talk to the optional board.
I purchased both these items from FPS in germany. The board was a rebuilt board made by Grundeg and the software was made by Beets software in germany.
When i purchased my software from FPS i got a DOS version and tht was fine until i upgraded my computer to windows 2000. The DOS software needs to load memory resident and with 16 bit code the program would not run in windows 2000 except with dual operating systems installed. The dual operating system caused trouble with my CAM program (SurfCam). I solved the problem by getting the Beets software (AutoDNC) in a windows version.

You can see if your machine has the hardware by selecting mode 14 0n the control. At the top of the screen use the right arrow key to highlight "RS232" and then press the acknowledge key.
Halfway down the screen is a label that says "DNC".
Use the down arrow to highlight the DNC option on the screen. (it should say "OFF") Arrow right or left and the condition of the line should change from "OFF" ot "ON".
If this happens you have the required hardware. If you can't change it to "ON" then you need the card.

If you need the software only you can get it from Beets directly i believe.
The software is sort of special.
Here is how it works: First off a Deckel Dialog4 control can not "Drip feed". The special hardware and software sort of trick the control into running large programs. The first step is to take your program and run it through the software. There it is broken down into a number of smaller programs that are made to have flags and sequence numbers so that they can be run as a series of continous programs, one after the other. The size of these small programs can be set in the DNC software, but they usually ate about 1000 lines of code each. (the Dialog 4 will not recognise sequence numbers larger than 9999).
After the program has been divided, it is held in the computer. From the control you call the program using a number you saved the split program as. The control calls the program and it starts loading the small programs to memory. It will load a number of these small programs depending on the free memory avaliable on the control.
Once you make the initial setup in the control of settong all the tool numbers and offsets and start the program running.
As the control runs the small programs it automaticaly begins the next in line. When a small program has been run the control will automaticaly delete that small program from memory and load the next program from the computer.
So in effect you have small programs being deleted , being run, waiting to be run in machine memory, porgram being transfered from the computer and small programs waiting to be tramsferred to the control from the computer......Yikes,lot of stuff going on here but it works.
I am told the the software and card are also avalible from DMG>

Be prepaired....this stuff is expensieve. I think i paid over $6K for my setup about 6 years ago, and you must proivide a good board to exchange.

Some address information:
FPS in Germany. They don't seem to respond to e-mail but a Fax gets a return in my expirence.

http://www.fps-service.de/index.htm

Beetz Software:
Makers of AutoDNC
www.autodnc.de
Infomation:
[email protected]

ps. i would only go with the Windows vesion of the software for reasons stated abobe.

Hope this helps
Cheers Ross
 
Many thanks to You Ross for Your detailed informations.

Your informations helped me very much to understand the problems refering the DNC Dialog 4.
I tried at the control unit in the position
14 ... the change of the value “OFF ” to “ON” under the item DNC and succeed. From Your letter I can see that this way the hardware condition is satisfied. Is it necessary to check some other hardware demand, before I start the programmtransfer.

The transfer of the programm I didn’t try yet, because the post processor in PRO/E which I own I havn’t adapt to the Dialog 4, so that I wish to ask You if You could send me an programmexample for which You know that it works for sure through the DNC connection and which is bigger than 0,5 MB.

The programme for comunication which I have is Deckel DNC software for Dialog 11 ABT 511 version 1.9. I use this programme for DNC communication and it works without problems.

Otherwise, this is a DOS programme, an original product of the firm Deckel. Have You any information about this programme and the use for the Dialog 4.
Which sort of DOS programmes have You used before You change and use the “AUTODNC”, where could I find this TRAIL version of this programme? For which purpose the position of the switch 15 ( DNC operation ) can be used.

I wish to thank You once more in advance and hope that with Your help i will be able to solve completely the problem.

Milos
 
Milos:
As i understand it you have been succesful in turning on the DNC option which means that you are fortunate to have the hardware required to DNC the Dialog4.
Now as to the software. I understand that you have Deckel software that allows you to DNC to a Dialog11. I have never worked with the Dialog11 so i am not exactly sure here, but i believe tht the Dialog11 is pretty conventional and it can "Drip feed". Unless the Deckel software has a setting for Dialog4 i don't think it will work. As posted above the Dialog4 needs to have the programs broken down so that they work in the correct order. The Dialog11 on the other hand does not require this and so the Deckel program lacs the capibility to do the program splitting.
The DOS program that i had before the windows verson of "AutoDNC" was a DOS version of the same program "AutoDNC",made by Beetz software as listed above.
As far as i know there is no demo version for trialof this software, and pirate copies would do little good as it takes a hardware "Dongle" or key to allow the software to be used.
I am sure that Deckel hav a program that can do DNC for the Dialog4 and it might be there own and avaliable from Deckel directly.
This is a fairly rare machine and control combination and the DNC option is more unusual yet, so i think your options to find "Free" or inexpensieve software to do this work is highly doubtful. If you need the option and you have programs that are larger than the memory of your control or longer than 9999 lines then i would suggest that a purchase of the Beetz or possibly the Deckel software is your only option.
I can send you a sample of a large "Split" program if you like but i can't see how that will help if you don't have the software to manage it. Let me know.
Cheers Ross
 
Thanks again Ross

Could you send to me one sample program? I will try with other programs at start,and my friend from Germany will try to find "AUTODNC".

Also I will adapt my post procesor in PRO/E.

Thanhs in advanced

Milos
 
A bit late info since im new to this forum. I operate a dialog4 and used a program from DMG called DPC, it worked well under dos but failed horribly under windows 2k and up. After much searching and despair (its really a bother to post programs on one computer, transfer it to another on floppy, since our IT dept. wont allow network to non-wintendo computer, and finally to the machine) i came across Cimco dnc-max. It works fine with my machine.
Basicly you have a small serverprogram running on the computer with your cnc as a client, you have to name your prgs corrosponding to the number they end up having in the cnc (ie. 1000.*) and all you have to do is switch to bay 15, press IN and the program makes a normal transfer and is ready to use. If you want to "dripfeed" you reserve a higher number ei. in the 50k's, and again to get program 1000 with drip feed you goto B15, press IN 51000. the software then splits the program and starts loading it in smaller segments. goto B13, wait til the first 2-3 prgrams are transferred (just to have a small buffer) and select %51000 .. and then proceed to mill the part .. works like a charm and you send and recieve your programs from the cnc without having to touch the computer


http://www.cimco.dk/ <- page is in english
 
Milos:
The Dialog4 control is capible of running under "Deckel DNC". I have this feature on my FP4NC with a Dialog4 control.
Here is how it works: First you need to know that commercial software from 3rd patry companies will not work with the Dialog4 control with a few exceptions.
The first thing you need is a new communications board for the control unless the machine is already fitted with one. The hardware (option) controls the DNC function and the standard machine did not have this unless it was ordered as an option.
The second thing you need is special software that can talk to the optional board.
I purchased both these items from FPS in germany. The board was a rebuilt board made by Grundeg and the software was made by Beets software in germany.
When i purchased my software from FPS i got a DOS version and tht was fine until i upgraded my computer to windows 2000. The DOS software needs to load memory resident and with 16 bit code the program would not run in windows 2000 except with dual operating systems installed. The dual operating system caused trouble with my CAM program (SurfCam). I solved the problem by getting the Beets software (AutoDNC) in a windows version.

You can see if your machine has the hardware by selecting mode 14 0n the control. At the top of the screen use the right arrow key to highlight "RS232" and then press the acknowledge key.
Halfway down the screen is a label that says "DNC".
Use the down arrow to highlight the DNC option on the screen. (it should say "OFF") Arrow right or left and the condition of the line should change from "OFF" ot "ON".
If this happens you have the required hardware. If you can't change it to "ON" then you need the card.

If you need the software only you can get it from Beets directly i believe.
The software is sort of special.
Here is how it works: First off a Deckel Dialog4 control can not "Drip feed". The special hardware and software sort of trick the control into running large programs. The first step is to take your program and run it through the software. There it is broken down into a number of smaller programs that are made to have flags and sequence numbers so that they can be run as a series of continous programs, one after the other. The size of these small programs can be set in the DNC software, but they usually ate about 1000 lines of code each. (the Dialog 4 will not recognise sequence numbers larger than 9999).
After the program has been divided, it is held in the computer. From the control you call the program using a number you saved the split program as. The control calls the program and it starts loading the small programs to memory. It will load a number of these small programs depending on the free memory avaliable on the control.
Once you make the initial setup in the control of settong all the tool numbers and offsets and start the program running.
As the control runs the small programs it automaticaly begins the next in line. When a small program has been run the control will automaticaly delete that small program from memory and load the next program from the computer.
So in effect you have small programs being deleted , being run, waiting to be run in machine memory, porgram being transfered from the computer and small programs waiting to be tramsferred to the control from the computer......Yikes,lot of stuff going on here but it works.
I am told the the software and card are also avalible from DMG>

Be prepaired....this stuff is expensieve. I think i paid over $6K for my setup about 6 years ago, and you must proivide a good board to exchange.

Some address information:
FPS in Germany. They don't seem to respond to e-mail but a Fax gets a return in my expirence.

Seite wurde nicht gefunden. -

Beetz Software:
Makers of AutoDNC
www.autodnc.de
Infomation:
[email protected]

ps. i would only go with the Windows vesion of the software for reasons stated abobe.

Hope this helps
Cheers Ross

Hi everyone I would like to ask some questions as I'm new to this.

I've checked on my deckel fp4a dialogue 4.

I put it in mode 14 and I'm able to change DNC on and off that means the I have the hardware.

I put it on mode 16 software version that I have on my machine is 3.06
Do I need to update to 3.07 version to connect with auto DNC ?

The machine came with rs323 so for sure the machine was connected to the computer.


Thanks in advance
 
Help

Milos:
The Dialog4 control is capible of running under "Deckel DNC". I have this feature on my FP4NC with a Dialog4 control.
Here is how it works: First you need to know that commercial software from 3rd patry companies will not work with the Dialog4 control with a few exceptions.
The first thing you need is a new communications board for the control unless the machine is already fitted with one. The hardware (option) controls the DNC function and the standard machine did not have this unless it was ordered as an option.
The second thing you need is special software that can talk to the optional board.
I purchased both these items from FPS in germany. The board was a rebuilt board made by Grundeg and the software was made by Beets software in germany.
When i purchased my software from FPS i got a DOS version and tht was fine until i upgraded my computer to windows 2000. The DOS software needs to load memory resident and with 16 bit code the program would not run in windows 2000 except with dual operating systems installed. The dual operating system caused trouble with my CAM program (SurfCam). I solved the problem by getting the Beets software (AutoDNC) in a windows version.

You can see if your machine has the hardware by selecting mode 14 0n the control. At the top of the screen use the right arrow key to highlight "RS232" and then press the acknowledge key.
Halfway down the screen is a label that says "DNC".
Use the down arrow to highlight the DNC option on the screen. (it should say "OFF") Arrow right or left and the condition of the line should change from "OFF" ot "ON".
If this happens you have the required hardware. If you can't change it to "ON" then you need the card.

If you need the software only you can get it from Beets directly i believe.
The software is sort of special.
Here is how it works: First off a Deckel Dialog4 control can not "Drip feed". The special hardware and software sort of trick the control into running large programs. The first step is to take your program and run it through the software. There it is broken down into a number of smaller programs that are made to have flags and sequence numbers so that they can be run as a series of continous programs, one after the other. The size of these small programs can be set in the DNC software, but they usually ate about 1000 lines of code each. (the Dialog 4 will not recognise sequence numbers larger than 9999).
After the program has been divided, it is held in the computer. From the control you call the program using a number you saved the split program as. The control calls the program and it starts loading the small programs to memory. It will load a number of these small programs depending on the free memory avaliable on the control.
Once you make the initial setup in the control of settong all the tool numbers and offsets and start the program running.
As the control runs the small programs it automaticaly begins the next in line. When a small program has been run the control will automaticaly delete that small program from memory and load the next program from the computer.
So in effect you have small programs being deleted , being run, waiting to be run in machine memory, porgram being transfered from the computer and small programs waiting to be tramsferred to the control from the computer......Yikes,lot of stuff going on here but it works.
I am told the the software and card are also avalible from DMG>

Be prepaired....this stuff is expensieve. I think i paid over $6K for my setup about 6 years ago, and you must proivide a good board to exchange.

Some address information:
FPS in Germany. They don't seem to respond to e-mail but a Fax gets a return in my expirence.

Seite wurde nicht gefunden. -

Beetz Software:
Makers of AutoDNC
www.autodnc.de
Infomation:
[email protected]

ps. i would only go with the Windows vesion of the software for reasons stated abobe.

Hope this helps
Cheers Ross

Hi everyone I would like to ask some questions as I'm new to this.

I've checked on my deckel fp4a dialogue 4.

I put it in mode 14 and I'm able to change DNC on and off that means the I have the hardware.

I put it on mode 16 software version that I have on my machine is 3.06
Do I need to update to 3.07 version to connect with auto DNC ?

The machine came with rs323 so for sure the machine was connected to the computer.


Thanks in advance
 
Help

Milos:
The Dialog4 control is capible of running under "Deckel DNC". I have this feature on my FP4NC with a Dialog4 control.
Here is how it works: First you need to know that commercial software from 3rd patry companies will not work with the Dialog4 control with a few exceptions.
The first thing you need is a new communications board for the control unless the machine is already fitted with one. The hardware (option) controls the DNC function and the standard machine did not have this unless it was ordered as an option.
The second thing you need is special software that can talk to the optional board.
I purchased both these items from FPS in germany. The board was a rebuilt board made by Grundeg and the software was made by Beets software in germany.
When i purchased my software from FPS i got a DOS version and tht was fine until i upgraded my computer to windows 2000. The DOS software needs to load memory resident and with 16 bit code the program would not run in windows 2000 except with dual operating systems installed. The dual operating system caused trouble with my CAM program (SurfCam). I solved the problem by getting the Beets software (AutoDNC) in a windows version.

You can see if your machine has the hardware by selecting mode 14 0n the control. At the top of the screen use the right arrow key to highlight "RS232" and then press the acknowledge key.
Halfway down the screen is a label that says "DNC".
Use the down arrow to highlight the DNC option on the screen. (it should say "OFF") Arrow right or left and the condition of the line should change from "OFF" ot "ON".
If this happens you have the required hardware. If you can't change it to "ON" then you need the card.

If you need the software only you can get it from Beets directly i believe.
The software is sort of special.
Here is how it works: First off a Deckel Dialog4 control can not "Drip feed". The special hardware and software sort of trick the control into running large programs. The first step is to take your program and run it through the software. There it is broken down into a number of smaller programs that are made to have flags and sequence numbers so that they can be run as a series of continous programs, one after the other. The size of these small programs can be set in the DNC software, but they usually ate about 1000 lines of code each. (the Dialog 4 will not recognise sequence numbers larger than 9999).
After the program has been divided, it is held in the computer. From the control you call the program using a number you saved the split program as. The control calls the program and it starts loading the small programs to memory. It will load a number of these small programs depending on the free memory avaliable on the control.
Once you make the initial setup in the control of settong all the tool numbers and offsets and start the program running.
As the control runs the small programs it automaticaly begins the next in line. When a small program has been run the control will automaticaly delete that small program from memory and load the next program from the computer.
So in effect you have small programs being deleted , being run, waiting to be run in machine memory, porgram being transfered from the computer and small programs waiting to be tramsferred to the control from the computer......Yikes,lot of stuff going on here but it works.
I am told the the software and card are also avalible from DMG>

Be prepaired....this stuff is expensieve. I think i paid over $6K for my setup about 6 years ago, and you must proivide a good board to exchange.

Some address information:
FPS in Germany. They don't seem to respond to e-mail but a Fax gets a return in my expirence.

Seite wurde nicht gefunden. -

Beetz Software:
Makers of AutoDNC
www.autodnc.de
Infomation:
[email protected]

ps. i would only go with the Windows vesion of the software for reasons stated abobe.

Hope this helps
Cheers Ross

Hi everyone I would like to ask some questions as I'm new to this.

I've checked on my deckel fp4a dialogue 4.

I put it in mode 14 and I'm able to change DNC on and off that means the I have the hardware.

I put it on mode 16 software version that I have on my machine is 3.06
Do I need to update to 3.07 version to connect with auto DNC ?

The machine came with rs323 so for sure the machine was connected to the computer.


Thanks in advance
 
Some general information to the best of my knowledge.....
Believe that you need software version 3.07...
All Dialog 4 machines have the RS232 interface
All Dialog 4 machines will down load and upload programs from a PC if you have a compatible communication program,and you have the computer settings set correctly and if you
have the format of your file correct....

The communication with a PC in a "normal" Dialog 4 control will only send a complete program to the memory of the control.
Program is limited to 10,000 blocks , and/or a size of 256K of information.

Programs larger than the above need to be handled by dividing the large program into smaller programs linked and fed to the control as they are executed....This requires software to split the program and
control its transmission. Further you will need the hardware (board) in the control to allow this.

My above posting is out of date...Believe Beetz software no longer makes or supports the DNC for Dialog4.

I would contact FPS for further info regarding the requirements needed to run large programs (DNC)

Cheers Ross
 








 
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