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How are you powering your Abene Mill?
- Thread starter KTapply
- Start date
- Replies 29
- Views 8,436
rblalexander
Aluminum
- Joined
- Oct 28, 2015
The motor won't move at all? Is it delta wound? Do you get and strange smells or small movements when you try an run it? Could do with more information and some photos.
I bought the mill from the son of the deceased owner and while he did his best to represent it accurately he thought it was wired for 220v 3 phase I now suspect it is configured for 480 rather than 220V. Here are some pictures, perhaps someone can help me interpret how it's wired.... ( I am not an electrician)...
rblalexander
Aluminum
- Joined
- Oct 28, 2015
I think the place you really need to look is inside the motor terminal box, looking at the nameplate it only implies star config, in that case a VFD will not work, at least not at full power.
I think it's a good rule when I say things like "I'm not an electrician" I try and find someone to look over it
I think it's a good rule when I say things like "I'm not an electrician" I try and find someone to look over it
I don't know if this will run on a VFD or not. Regardless I need to determine if it is configured to run on 220v or 480v and if it can be configured to run on 220v that is much better for me as none of my other machines run on 480v. I would be interested to learn how others are powering their Abene's.
Here are the schematics in case anyone here may be able to interpret them.
Thanks,
Kevin
Here are the schematics in case anyone here may be able to interpret them.
Thanks,
Kevin
Please open the terminal box on the motor itself, that will show if it's delta or star configuration for sure. And if it's in star config then it needs to be changed to delta.
I am no electrician either, but kinda surprised the electrician you hired could not do this right away.
I am no electrician either, but kinda surprised the electrician you hired could not do this right away.
I use a rotary phase converter. Mine is a VHF-3 and it starts up just fine with the feed motor engaged. Not sure of your model, but if you have a feed motor on yours, seems to me that you would need two VFDs with a fair amount of rewiring required.
10HP RPC for mine. On the Abene the feeds use reverse for rapid, you can't do that with a VFD. The 6hp spindle needs a fairly large VFD if you want full power and a code installation, too big for what power I had available.
The conversion from 440 to 220 is at the motor itself. There is no box on the drive motor so you need to use a multimeter to figure out the windings and then rewire them at the connection block. You remove the motor to do this. You could check the coolant and feed motor first if desired.
My picture says 440Y and 220D therefore I wired mine Delta at the motor. I did this for all 3 motors.
I have the same wiring diagram. On a RPC there are 6 things I'd check:
1. Incoming phases are wired so that the utility supplied legs are going to 2 and 3 since these go on to the transformer to supply the 24V.
2. Transformer connections are wired for 220 input.
3. Coolant is delta connected and motor spins the proper direction. Swap phase 2 and 3 at the machine connection if not.
4. Feed motor is delta
5. spindle motor is delta.
6. Check every wire screw so you know that none are loose.
If you go VFD and maintain the rapid feed you are smarter than I am, I couldn't figure out how to do it even if I had the power available. Maybe 3 VFD's and a bunch of rewiring is possible??
The conversion from 440 to 220 is at the motor itself. There is no box on the drive motor so you need to use a multimeter to figure out the windings and then rewire them at the connection block. You remove the motor to do this. You could check the coolant and feed motor first if desired.
My picture says 440Y and 220D therefore I wired mine Delta at the motor. I did this for all 3 motors.
I have the same wiring diagram. On a RPC there are 6 things I'd check:
1. Incoming phases are wired so that the utility supplied legs are going to 2 and 3 since these go on to the transformer to supply the 24V.
2. Transformer connections are wired for 220 input.
3. Coolant is delta connected and motor spins the proper direction. Swap phase 2 and 3 at the machine connection if not.
4. Feed motor is delta
5. spindle motor is delta.
6. Check every wire screw so you know that none are loose.
If you go VFD and maintain the rapid feed you are smarter than I am, I couldn't figure out how to do it even if I had the power available. Maybe 3 VFD's and a bunch of rewiring is possible??
AlfaGTA
Diamond
- Joined
- Dec 13, 2002
- Location
- Benicia California USA
VFD's will not power multi motor setups using a single unit. Further you should not use the machines control circuits (on/off switches) to control the machine...should be done
directly at the VFD, so that alone will require some wiring changes.....
Reading your first post, seems you already have invested in some iron (lathe and mill) plus the Abene......
My guess there will be more (that is the way these tings go)
I urge you to consider a real permanent solution to powering your machines.
Consider going to a Phase Perfect"....Delivers power as good or better than power company three phase. Will drive any number of machines from one source,High current capacity for starting motor loads. No rewiring of the machine control circuits needed. Delivered power is quiet and you can purchase weather protected enclosures that allow locating the unit outside to save valuable shop space.
Its a single no worry solution to the your current and future three phase power needs....An investment sure, but once done, you can concentrate on other shop worries, like where to fit that nice #3 Devlieg that you scored
at auction....
Cheers Ross
directly at the VFD, so that alone will require some wiring changes.....
Reading your first post, seems you already have invested in some iron (lathe and mill) plus the Abene......
My guess there will be more (that is the way these tings go)
I urge you to consider a real permanent solution to powering your machines.
Consider going to a Phase Perfect"....Delivers power as good or better than power company three phase. Will drive any number of machines from one source,High current capacity for starting motor loads. No rewiring of the machine control circuits needed. Delivered power is quiet and you can purchase weather protected enclosures that allow locating the unit outside to save valuable shop space.
Its a single no worry solution to the your current and future three phase power needs....An investment sure, but once done, you can concentrate on other shop worries, like where to fit that nice #3 Devlieg that you scored
at auction....
Cheers Ross
TomBoctou
Hot Rolled
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2007
- Location
- Boston, MA, USA
Mine is running off street 208 3 phase delta, which is probably what you want for a VFD.
I can take some pictures of my wiring and compare. I think mine is ~1967, so it might help if your is roughly the same age. Only problem is I'll have to remember when I get home and I have a memory like a steel sieve.
65AMC
Plastic
- Joined
- Oct 18, 2019
- Location
- Charlotte NC USA
First off I don't have an Abene but I do pretend to be an electrician for my day job. First question from a control standpoint what are your goals? If you want to maintain the original control setup as Ross said a RPC or a phase perfect is the only way this will be able to be accomplished. A vfd will not be able to run the control circuits and the reversing contractors will take them out quickly anyway.
Looking at the wiring diagram the only voltage reference is the control transformer which shows it was originally tapped for 550 volts. However the feed motor that you showed pictures of the data plate is not 550 so that is curious. I am also curious how the rapid works. The feed motor in the diagram obviously shows a reversing contactor on that motor. Maybe someone who knows these mills better can say if the rapid works somehow by reversing the motor.
Anyway if it was mine I would run one vfd for the spindle, 1 for the feed motor and if using coolant switch the pump motor out for a single phase. A decent electrician could wire up the VFDs to work off the existing push buttons and probably get the indicator lights to function as well without much fuss and a 24 volt power supply. However this will result in pretty much a total gut of the original controls so it really depends on how original you want everything to be.
Shawn
Looking at the wiring diagram the only voltage reference is the control transformer which shows it was originally tapped for 550 volts. However the feed motor that you showed pictures of the data plate is not 550 so that is curious. I am also curious how the rapid works. The feed motor in the diagram obviously shows a reversing contactor on that motor. Maybe someone who knows these mills better can say if the rapid works somehow by reversing the motor.
Anyway if it was mine I would run one vfd for the spindle, 1 for the feed motor and if using coolant switch the pump motor out for a single phase. A decent electrician could wire up the VFDs to work off the existing push buttons and probably get the indicator lights to function as well without much fuss and a 24 volt power supply. However this will result in pretty much a total gut of the original controls so it really depends on how original you want everything to be.
Shawn
TDegenhart
Diamond
- Joined
- Mar 26, 2011
- Location
- Geneva Illinois USA
Or you could get a rotary phase convertor and not change anything except transformer taps and motor wiring.
Tom
Tom
TDegenhart
Diamond
- Joined
- Mar 26, 2011
- Location
- Geneva Illinois USA
I can't speed for the rest of the crowd, but I am running two rotaries, one at 240 and the second at 480. I step up the 240 street voltage to 480 single phase and use a 480 volt motor and high voltage oil filled capacitors. You could do that way or use a more conventional 240 volt convertor and a three phase transformer to go from 240 to 480 three phase.
If all you have to do is change control transformer taps and motor connections that is the simplest.
Tom
Where terminal box is listed twice in the thread above it refers to the box that is part of the motor, where you do the actual change from Wye to Delta. What people without an Abene might not realize is that the spindle motor does not have a traditional "terminal box" but rather just a junction block inside the headstock. This makes no difference other than allowing you to remove the motor because there is no box in the way.
Simplest thing is to get a 240V RPC setup and follow my instructions.
Simplest thing is to get a 240V RPC setup and follow my instructions.
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