Iron Tour 2015 - Lots of pics - Page 6
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  1. #101
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    I use an old Canon G10.
    For me, it is a good balance between a SLR that may produce better quality pictures but would be too much af hassle to take everywhere, and a compact.

    This one is for you Rich !

    Last edited by TNB; 03-31-2015 at 12:18 PM.

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  3. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by bcstractor View Post
    Wasn't that a Colchester 13" lathe in one of the last batch of pictures? 6th photo down at 7.53pm on the left?
    It is almost certainly a Colchester (but could be labelled Harrison or something else) ,I would have said Triumph (note the vertical row of buttons on the headstock). There is a Harrison pictured somewhere as well from the back or end I think.

  4. #103
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    Cool James, ooohhh James...

    During this trip, we've seen all sort of awesome things.

    I've written that sometimes I felt just like I was visiting the Friedrich Deckel factory, but in 2015...

    May be some of you remember the pics of the Deckel factory I posted a while back on this forum...

    Amongst others, there was that impressive picture of the Deckel plant conference room, that inspired me that comment :

    "I can't help but think about Spectre meetings in James Bond movies with this one in particular...Man, this conference room was meant to rule the world at least !..."



    So you can imagine the thrill in me at that dealer we were at, when I saw that Aston Martin at the entrance door...



    and then...



    So "HE" was there too...
    Can we imagine Mr Bond as a steam model engineer on his spare time ? Or may be was he here to pick up a 102N-VM for "Q's" shop ?
    That was a funny sight and a nice coincidence anyway

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  6. #104
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    T, did you see any late manual Maho mills for sale in your tour ? I had what was probably the newest manual Maho in this country years ago and noticed that the only one like it on German eBay they were asking the equivalent of over $40,000 for. Mine was a little newer and nicer and after two years of ads for it, I ended up selling it in the $11,000 range.... to a German for his winter home hobby shop in Florida ! Wish I had kept it now. In fact tried to buy it back about six months ago but he had already sold it to someone else ! (and he ignored my request, as to who exactly that was... what the heck, they might want to sell it by now !)

    It was a wonderful machine...better than a late Deckel in that size in that it had hydraulic drawbar and infinitely variable speeds on spindle via variator (as well as feed of course via DC drive) Only downside is the engagement of axis power feeds just didn't "feel" as nice as a Deckel since you engage feeds by turning a knob on the control. The long steel transmission bar on a Deckel just has a more proper feel to it than turning a small plastic knob. Silly really, since the end result is the same...but these little details do matter to some of us.



    In spite of it's charms it seems hardly anyone in this country other than myself and perhaps two or three others, cared.


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  8. #105
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    Milacron

    The only Maho I can think of was at Peterve's warehouse. I think it was an MH400P.
    Now that you talk about it, I can't recall seeing any other one, let alone older ones.

    I realize that amongst the various dealers I've been visiting, I said nothing about Peterve. I must admit that I have almost no pictures of his warehouse.
    We went at his place in the morning after my arrival, so I was yet a little shy and probably didn't dare to take as much pictures as I would have liked to.
    He's probably too modest to admit it, but he has very nice machines and a nice shop.
    His shop has an attic where he stores every kind of bits and accessories. We were short on time, but this is a place I'd love to spend a little more time... next time !

  9. #106
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    D. I have never seen one in real life Even not on the tour
    But it is very simalar with the MH400P I just sold
    Very nice machines The P machines came with (TNC121)or without (TNC 135)a CRT The ones without a CRT bring more

    Did yours also has hydraulic clamping of the axes like the P machines

    Peter from holland

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    We're reaching the end of the journey now...
    That was a great experience and I hope you enjoyed sharing it with us, but as i told you earlier in this thread, the best is yet to come.

    We didn't you tell about the most thrilling experience of that trip yet...our visit at RUEMEMA !





    That is something we really wanted to keep for the end, as a dessert...

    This shop is specialized in the rebuidling of ultra-high precision manual lathes.

    Rüdiger Kramer, who runs the firma Ruemema, works on the Schaublin 135, 150 and 160, and on the Leinen LZ140 only,


    Those machines were probably amongst the finest manual lathes ever produced, and of a quality that is not manufactured anymore today.

    They are thus a solid starting point to work on and beeing able to offer customers the best machines money can buy in the end.

    Basically, when a machine leaves Ruemema's shop, it is new and in fact, probably better than a new one.

    Each and every machine is dismantled down to the smallest bit.
    Each part is inspected and if it doesn't match Herr Kramer's standards, replaced by a new one. That includes bearings, spindle bearings, screws, gears, absolutely everything. Everything.

    When we were here, a Schaublin 150b was just to be finished
    It is a very rare machine that has the ability to cut threads fully automaticaly in cyles. Very few were made before the CNC era killed the need for such beasts.
    Man. What a beauty !I don't think I had ever seen such a beaufitul lathe before. And althought it is hard to report with words, you recognize, you feel the quality ot the machine within the first handwheel revolution. It's a mix of smoothess and tightness in a perfectly light movement.

    Hard to describe really.

















    The Schaublins and the Leinen are machines for wich it is still possible to get new spare parts, wich is mandatory. Rüdiger told us that he typically spends as much as 20.000 euros (twenty thousands) euros in spare parts to rebuild a Schaublin 150. Did I hear oh-my-Gawd ?

    Rüdiger told us that a customer of his, who cringed about the price of parts may be, was offered to get charged for the labor only, but would have to provide all the required spares on his own. Wich turned out to be at least as expensive.


    Rüdiger showed us a simple -well, what seems like a simple- locking nut that comes at the rear of the 150 spindle assembly.

    This is basically a threaded ring with provision to secure it on the spindle.
    But that part is treated and precision ground to ensure a dead perfect perpendicularity of the thrust face with regard to the spindle axis, and Schaublin asks more than 500 euros for it...

    One wouldn't want to compromise the ultra precise spindle assembly with lesser quality parts and after all, it is not sure that manufacturing that part with the same level of quality would be much cheaper so of course, things get a little more understandable after you get in that kind of details...


    But beauty is not only skin deep. The ways are ground and scraped in-house by Herr Kramer.

    Ruemema is located in a residential area, wich is a good thing as Rüdiger explained to us, since the vibrations of the heavy trafic of an industrial zone could disturb the grinding process.

    Rüdiger did insist on the grinding of the ways beeing a very delicate operation, that requires a lot of time and care, and likes to have it "under control".
    Please don't pay attention to what may seem as discoloration on the ways, since it was only oil sprayed on them to prevent any risk of corrosion. The surface of those ways was per-fect.











    After seeing the kind of tolerances he achieves with his machines as well as his incredible inspection equipment, I'm a believer.

    Rüdiger offered us to make the test of putting any member of his machines under load with an indicator resting on it.

    We did. Trying to lift the carriage of the Schaublin 150 or to push hard on the coumpound slide.
    The needle barely moved, although the slides were absolutely, perfectly smooth all over their travel and the indicator was a... Mahr Millimess ! (thousands of millimeter indicator, that is).










    Of course, one of the questions that come to mind when talking about such tolerances for a lathe, is who the heck is in need for such accuracy for what remains -turning- some kind of a roughing process ?
    In that regard, our meeting with Herr Kramer was an eye opener to me. He explained to us that there are some very special applications in wich that level of precision allow his customers to make very special parts that would not be doable another way.

    He told us about customers of his who are in high end optics and who have to turn hard-anodized parts to an extremely high level of accuracy - diameter-concentricity-perpendicularity-roundness. Hard anodization is a process wich does not goes along well with grinding, Rüdiger explained to us.
    Think about the level of accuracy one has to expect from a rifle scope to allow shooting at distances in the range of 2000m... That makes sense.
    We also talked about the making of measuring instruments for the field of common rail injection for diesel engines. Devices that require a very high level of accuracy, such as no seal can be used, but also have to handle pressures as high as 2000 atm...

    To give you an idea of the kind of accuracy one can expect from Ruemema's machines, here's the Prüfprotokoll of the Schaublin 150b that was just beeing finished as we were at Rüdiger's shop :

    I can also encourage you to browse his website, where he describes his work and his machines. it is well worth a visit and you'll learn a lot about the dedication of this man to quality and precision : http://www.ruemema.de/



    Last edited by Milacron; 10-14-2018 at 08:15 PM.

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  12. #108
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    A single detail like the differential vernier dials (basically two dials with one beeing geared to give 1/100 mm readings directly) gives an idea of the quality and sense of detail in the construction of the small Leinen.







    Don't pay attention to the traces on the ways. Only clear oil. I'm ashamed to have only poor pics of Rüdiger's machines to post, but unfortunately, I don't have much pics.
    The little story behind it is after a while in the shop, I finally dared to ask Rüdiger if I was allowed to take pictures and he answered a question Peter had just asked, ignoring my request...
    At first, I thought it was a polite way to say "no".
    I was deceived, but kept enjoying our visit anyway. I could very well understand his will to keep his shop and the way he works private and I was not willing to be invasive nor pushy.

    But nahhhh.... I definitely couldn't see something so extraordinary and not keeping a few memories at least so after a long while, I took all the courage I had, and asked another time... Glad I did ! My first question had not been ignored but simply not heard ! "Of course" Rüdiger replied ! "take all the pictures you want" !!!

    Unfortunately, we were almost already due to leave to be on time for the following visit so all my pictures were taken on the "quick ! quick ! quick !" mode.
    Too bad really. Too bad we did not have time enough to stay longer.





    Undoubtly, our visit at Ruemema will remain the very best memory of that trip.

    Of course, seeing nice machines -sometimes ultra nice machines- is always a pleasure for someone loving beautiful iron, but it remains iron. After the first excitement, seeing rows and rows of lathes and milling machines could get a little boring if it was not for the meeting of people who put life in them manufacturing or rebuilding them or even simply cranking the handwheels.


    With his energy, his passion, his incredible knowledge and skills and his will for us to share his work, Rüdiger Kramer was without question the one who did put the most "soul" in that "Iron tour".
    I want to thank him again for that.

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  14. #109
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    Like like like like.

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    T and Peter, thank you very much for sharing pictures and experiences from your trip.I hope there is some extra stuff left to publish later.

    I personally waited anxiously for the Ruemema visit, as he is considered top rebuilder of lathes.
    Btw, is there a strange story behind the Deckel FP42NC that is dismantled on the background of a photo?Maybe a customer found out that Mr Singer or FPS aren't inside the tightest tolerances he needs, or just Mr Kramer rebuilds a Deckel for own use?

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    T, it's fascinating to me that the 150 tailstocks in your latest photos, both regular and starwheel, are "round" in shape surrounding the quill, just like the 135 tailstocks.

    Every other 150 I've seen photos of, had a sort of "sharp edge" tailstocks like Kee's. I wonder if the very earliest 150's were that way or this fellow adapted 135 tailstocks to a 150 lathe via riser blocks ?

  17. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milacron View Post
    T, it's fascinating to me that the 150 tailstocks in your latest photos, both regular and starwheel, are "round" in shape surrounding the quill, just like the 135 tailstocks.

    Every other 150 I've seen photos of, had a sort of "sharp edge" tailstocks like Kee's. I wonder if the very earliest 150's were that way or this fellow adapted 135 tailstocks to a 150 lathe via riser blocks ?
    Rüdiger told us that these round casting tailstocks were found on the early 150s. Original without question.

    Zephyrous : the strange story behind the FP42 is the same as with other Ruemema machines : find who on earth would need an FP42 with a table flatness within a total 0,004mm tolerance, and you'll have the answer to your question .

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    Normaly on a trip you end with the highlight but we had ruemema skeduled as the first business to visit
    And for sure this was the highlight at the beginning
    It started from the moment I emailed him with the request if we could visit him on monday
    I got a response immediatly telling me he would be pleased to welcome me
    On Saterday before the visit I got another e-mail
    If we could arrange it to be at his place at about 13.00Hr monday to have dinner with some "Wildbraten"
    His wife would prepare the wild boar that was shot in his area some days before for us then
    Well that is a welcome isn`t it
    Unfortunatly we had another appointment that day so we had to say no thanks a lott for the Wildbraten
    But we were welcomed with coffee and some cake
    He appologized to Tien for not speaking very good englisch Well he is better in it as I am
    The man was so enthousiastic about his profession Talked about it with so much passion
    Then of to the shop
    On picture 2 of post 107 you can see a Deckel FP3L he scraped the table (1000x500mm IIRC) Deckel specs says within 0.04mm
    He had it within 0.004 THAT IS MM NOT INCHES
    When you look at his test reports in general it has a additional 0 compared to that of a Weiler or Emco
    He had his grinder rebuild himself to the accurracy he needs
    The schaublins he sells are generaly used as manual hard turning machines
    Then we talked about prices a bit
    I could not believe my ears Not expencive at all

    Look at the prices on his website

    peter from holland

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  20. #114
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    Rüdiger's personnal lathe is... a Schaublin 160. That should remind you some memories Milacron !



    On this pic, you have a small view of the grinder... To bad we didn't have time enough to get more specific about that machine and its operation. Next time
    All the machine looked like new. Even better than new. Perfect. Everything was soo clean, soo perfect.



    While we're at it Milacron, I wonder if that particular post about Ruemema wouldn't desserve to be duplicated in the Schaublin lathes forum.
    It has a natural place here as part of our journey but beeing all about ultra-high quality european lathes, I think it would also be a good thing to have it in the right section. Rüdiger's work is really worth it.

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  22. #115
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    Fine machines, shops and photographs: thanks so much, though I am clearly out of my league. All I know is a few old US (and Canadian, I think) used Weilers (so about all I recognized were these).

    Again, awful nice tour, so thanks again.

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    I like that the clock is RAL green.

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    His website has some nice pin up pictures that you can blow up to see better. A couple of the grinder being renovated but a few nice ones of his shop area.

    Charles

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    It is interesting how young Herr Kramer appears to be. My own (probably unfounded) perspective is that *true* machine artists are a bit of a dying breed and hence tend to be on the older side. Do you know anything about his history, as in where he learned the trade, etc?

    To be honest, I had not heard of him, although it sounds as though his reputation is well known by others around the world. Clearly he has a skill that is admirable and notable, though.... Very nice set of pictures, guys. Thanks again!

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    Wrench
    He told a bit about his background
    He learned the trade from his father in law
    Every evening he worked with the man and after that the girl
    So he had a nice drive
    After his father in law died he was trown in the deep Customers came and wanted things done
    He was a good apprentice as it seems because they were happy with him
    Because of german law he had to get a ''Meister" degree to continue his father in laws bussiness
    As he was a hunter and already involved with waepons he got his "Meister" degree as a gunsmith
    With that degree it was possible to continue the bussiness
    So if you want your gun scraped

    peter from holland

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    That is pretty neat. Thank you for filling in the blanks on him.

    Alan


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