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Knuzmann- Finally saw one in the flesh today.... IMTS Chicago. (Photos)

Milacron

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Dec 15, 2000
Location
SC, USA
Beautiful...and runs quiet as a church mouse... 5,000 RPM spindle.... one gear change at 1050 RPM...

IMG_0134.jpg IMG_0138.jpg IMG_0136.jpg

About $130,000 for this one as shown...$120,000 for the smaller 410 version. They still make manual versions but starting at $90,000 impossible to justify...with these manual/CNC versions....maybe....
 
One of my car customers who has a home shop got a firm quote from them about a year ago...did not seem to be a problem.
He opted to go in another direction...(wire EDM)

The clue is that they have a booth at IMTS...No reason if they aren't going to sell here it would seem....
Not a big fan of the touch screen...Wonder if that is an option?
Cheers Ross
 
Guess it all is dependent on what you are looking for......

For sure not a production machine...but perhaps a pretty good tool makers/prototype/repair platform...With both horizontal and vertical spindles, real glass scale axis encoders and a stable
structure. ..Think those machines are still are built using box ways....

For my work that architecture has proven to be superior....The reason i have never upgraded from a machine built in 1993, it aint a matter of cost, but rather current machines just don't cover my needs...
That kunzmann comes pretty close with the advantage of having modern electronics / spindle drive...Would need a universal tool makers table to make the cut however...

Indeed you can buy Sh*t for a lot less money.....that's for sure!
Cheers Ross
 
Milacron:
Interested in a more complete in person evaluation...How does the machine stack up...fit and finish, size, features...the lot, any gripes?
How was the machine presented....are they interested in the N.A. market? Do they have a dealership network?
Cheers Ross
 
Ross - their web site (just a web site) calls the touch screen an option, and shows what looks like a universal tilting table (but no rotary) - but of course that's just a picture on a web site.

Milacron - so it's a 3-axis machine with a manually tiltable head (and perhaps table), yes?
 
Will they actually sell one to the U.S.?

Their competator FPS is absolutly not interested in the US market I was told by their CEO Herr Schmid and will not sell to the US if asked
Never owned a Kunzmann It seems to me they only became popular in the 90ies as a alternative for the Deckels which then were not made anymore
Before that they only had small knee type mills

Peter
 
Guess it all is dependent on what you are looking for......

For sure not a production machine...but perhaps a pretty good tool makers/prototype/repair platform...With both horizontal and vertical spindles, real glass scale axis encoders and a stable
structure. ..Think those machines are still are built using box ways....

For my work that architecture has proven to be superior....The reason i have never upgraded from a machine built in 1993, it aint a matter of cost, but rather current machines just don't cover my needs...
That kunzmann comes pretty close with the advantage of having modern electronics / spindle drive...Would need a universal tool makers table to make the cut however...

Indeed you can buy Sh*t for a lot less money.....that's for sure!
Cheers Ross

I am thinking that the work you do would be compromised by the guarding ,I bet that would need to be removeable to make the best of the machine.
 
Their competator FPS is absolutly not interested in the US market I was told by their CEO Herr Schmid and will not sell to the US if asked
Never owned a Kunzmann It seems to me they only became popular in the 90ies as a alternative for the Deckels which then were not made anymore
Before that they only had small knee type mills

Peter

Far be it for me to argue with someone in the trade....Bur a year ago my customer, same one that also looked at Kunzmann, also got a real quote from FPS for both a used /rebuilt machine and one of
their "new" construction machines....

The deal was never struck, but they seemed to have no issues at selling him a machine....Perhaps it had to do with my customers financial statement...

Cheers Ross
 
Sorry for the ignorant jab at the company. Just one look at the table support and my mind went to cost savings rather than rigidity. Nothing looks too beefy on it but I will look into them more for future reference.
 
Tables are made to be removable so accessory tables or different fixtures can be fitted...Operative word here is "Universal"....
Long parts can be clamped directly to the vertical surface....
On a Deckel (the model for this type of machine architecture) never noticed an issue with table rigidity...I am sure it happens, but remember the niche this machine is pointing towards...
"Tool Room" work....

Also note that there is no "Y" axis slide compounded to the "X" like most other mills....One less place to sag as the table moves from side to side...

Cheers Ross
 
Looks just like my Hermle UWF 851 except it's added the manual handles (would love to have those) and mine has a NC rotary table. Beautiful machine. I was also interested in that Heidenhain control. Don't think I'd like the touchscreen but what do I know. I wonder what kind of relationship Hermle and Knuzmann have?
 
Far be it for me to argue with someone in the trade....Bur a year ago my customer, same one that also looked at Kunzmann, also got a real quote from FPS for both a used /rebuilt machine and one of
their "new" construction machines....

The deal was never struck, but they seemed to have no issues at selling him a machine....Perhaps it had to do with my customers financial statement...

Cheers Ross

They may have changed their mind We discussed it during our visit documented in the thread called "iron tour"Perhaps TNB can remember
Another poasibillity ia they sell the European version of the machine 400volts 50 herz and Wueopean safety measures
Peter
 
it's added the manual handles (would love to have those)

The handles on my Deckel FP2NC are a waste of metal in my opinion. I never use them, and never feel the need. Between the MPG wheel and Modes 5 & 6 on the Dialog control (basically, hand jog), I've got all the manual control I need. The handwheels would be useless if the control dies, so they are not a way to operate the mill manually if the control goes tango uniform.
 
Totally agree with Rich....
On first contact i felt the hand wheels would be a nice advantage...In reality once you have about a 1/2 hour with that Dialog control moving the slides around
becomes so easy, that the hand wheels don't enter the picture.....
Do use the manual (hand wheel ) setting of mode 1 when the machine has set idle for a long period with the power off....gives things a chance to warm up before enabling the
servos....on my machine that prevents early shutdowns till things warmup.....Gives a way to isolate a control fault...removes the Servo drive from the picture.

Also have used the hand wheels to move that little extra (usually in vertical) to get to a feature by going past the limit stop .

Its my belief that the hand wheels were part of Deckel's sales approach to get manual tool makers to make the switch to a CNC...."Well if you don't want to use the control, its got hand wheels same as your manual mill "
Cheers Ross
 
The handles on my Deckel FP2NC are a waste of metal in my opinion. I never use them, and never feel the need. Between the MPG wheel and Modes 5 & 6 on the Dialog control (basically, hand jog), I've got all the manual control I need. The handwheels would be useless if the control dies, so they are not a way to operate the mill manually if the control goes tango uniform.

Makes sense. I wasn't thinking they were just MPGs mounted on the machine. Do your handwheels have any resistance in use?
 
Handwheels have plenty of resistance.
They (Deckel) have a friction device in the handwheel support bearing....That and you have to turn all the servo gear when you move an axis...
On the Deckel they are pure mechanical....Pull out to use...that engages gearing that moves the screw (X & Z) or the nut (Y)....
Fair bit of drag on the "Z".
Cheers Ross
 








 
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