Looking at buying a Deckel FP3 but???

Hi an apparently nice looking FP3 is coming up for sale at auction but before I even go to look at it (its a couple of hundred miles away) can someone give me the overall dimensions as I have limited space in my shop -- so if it aint gonna fit it would be good to know.

If I do go to look at it are there any particular things I should look out for.

TIA Nigel

Nigel:

The rough dimensions are: 4'6"W x 5'6" Deep. You must allow about 10" additional to each side of the width for table travel (20" total)
Depending on which table is fitted. Above size listed for an FP3 fitted with the "Heavy" rectangular universal table (36"x 15").


There are for the most part two different versions of the machine. The first series has a single motor. The power feeds are driven off that motor so that the main drive/spindle motor must be running to use the power feeds or rapids. As far as i know all FP3's have the single dial shift setup for the spindle. The earlier ones also having the dial shift for the feed gearbox.
The first series machines have a max spindle speed of 2000 RPM i believe and a single speed main motor.

The second series were built with two motors. One main spindle motor (AC) and a DC servo style motor that powered the feeds. This is a more desireable setup as it allows using the rapids for positioning without the need to have the main motor or spindle. The dual motor setup also allows running the spindle motor in reverse a nice feature on some work such as power tapping.
The dual motor machines were also built with a 2500 RPM spindle speed and used a two speed motor to give the added range with out killing the low end. (25 RPM)
The dual motor machines do not have a feed gearbox but rather use the DC motor's ability to run at varible speeds to give teh range of feeds for teh machine. Here the rapid feeding is accomplished by overspeeding the feed drive motor with a pushbutton on the operators pannel.

Both series used "one shot" style oilers for the ways and slides. Believe the later ones used an electrical "automatic" version. But in either case the oiling system is well developed and gives good lube distribution to the machine without having to muck about with an oil gun.

There is a third variant in the FP3's. Some of the late ones were fitted with the "Aktiv" control. This gave a factory installed Heidenhain DRO on 3 axis and the ability to program a single straight line move in any axis. This system actually works pretty well and can produce moves that are quite accurate. Note: this system can not do real CNC type of moves..like angle interpolation or circles..and you can only execute one move on one axis per move. The Aktiv machines were also dual motor machines as described above.

There are several tables that could have been fitted to the "3" some that are universal and some fixed.

In general, the FP3 is a fine machine, being a later development or progression in the FP line. As with any machine tool the usual things to watch should be looked at...Condition of the spindle tapers, way condition, screw backlash/slop, damage the table or other parts along with the general overall condition.The X axis lead screw is driven by a drive rod through a set of gears to eliminate the need to have a drive slot in teh screw (eliminates the trouble and wear associated with the drive/feed rod combination setup) .

These machines accept the standard Deckel #40 taper collets (20x2.0 buttress thread draw stud at the rear of the collet). These can be pricy to buy so any tooling that is included with the machine is a good thing.

A running check of the gearbox (if it is all working) and the vertical and horizontal spindles (how noisy and if they get hot at max RPM) would be a nice thing to look into if possible.

Cheeers Ross

The rough dimensions are: 4'6"W x 5'6" Deep.

Click to expand...

Ross,
Does that dimension allow for rearward Y axis travel with the main head slid all the way back? Been a long time since I've measured mine.

Nigel,
Deckels are very comfortable being run at about a 45 degree angle from the wall (if a wall is what you have behind it). You can run them just fine at 90 though (like a Bridgeport), but depending on your space, sometimes 45(ish) is actually better.
Keep in mind that you kind of run a Deckel from the side, not the front (although it's really both so 45 degrees splits the difference and is about the normal operator standing position).

Here are some photos of Deckels (one of them is an FP3) in what I consider their "natural" position (angle), and also a photo showing the main vertical head in its rearward position for mounting attachments heads or the overarm.

The extra space required by sliding the vertical head back is somewhat absorbed by placing the machine at this angle if you have the side-to-side clearance.

If you're not mounting near a wall, or have a large shop where you can walk around it, or don't need to conserve walkway in front of the machine, then it doesn't really matter. If not, I would advice this approach if it works for you.

Sean

Hmm, so probably another 8-10" or so with everything as rearward as it will go?

Is it the Goindustry one in Peterborough?

Seems to be one of the older machines.

Chris P

Chris -- yes it is the Goindustry one in Peterborough -- any specific comments heres a link
http://www.goindustry.com/en/equipmentdetails.asp?sOfferID=1274136 and whats the right sort of price for a machine like this.

It looks like it has the vertical head mounted on an extra 90 deg elbow and it has the rotary table mounted direct on the knee.

Sean/Ross thanks for the info -- with that kind of depth the 45deg positioning would be an essential for me.

Does anyone know of a UK dealer that specialises in secondhand Deckels.

Cheers Nigel

Nigel:
You obsurvations about the machine are correct. Has the angle head accessory and the swivel/angle/rotary table that would be very handy. This is a single motor machine(2000 RPM) fitted with an aftermarket DRO...can't tell from the photos , but the install looks OK.
If this machine was in relatively good condition it would make a nice machine for almost any application within the working envelope...(20 X, 12 Y, 16 Z) (note additional 8 1/4" avaliable by positioning the "Y" slide)

If that machine was in the States, i would seriously consider bidding on it.....Good luck
Cheers Ross