Macmon m100c vs M100e

Kobusvn · Apr 22, 2021

Hi all,

I have two Macmon mills, the M100c was made (according to the nameplate) in Switzerland in 1973 and the M100e in Germany in 1989.

I was just wondering, does anyone know how their numbering system worked to figure out what the differnce would have been between them? This is now apart from the visual differences, ie, variable speed control and so on.

There seems to be a M100L as well, but hey.

If anyone has any info, it would be appreciated.

Thanks.

Peter from Holland · Apr 22, 2021

They were never made in eighter Switserland or Germany
They were imported rebadges Prvomajska ALG 100 made in Zagreb

Peter

Kobusvn · Apr 23, 2021

Thanks Peter,

Both appears to be quite well made though.

Kobus

Peter from Holland · Apr 24, 2021

Yes Well made machines
But that is not unique to Switserland or Germany

Peter

90roadster · Sep 15, 2023

Kobusvn said:
Hi all,

I have two Macmon mills, the M100c was made (according to the nameplate) in Switzerland in 1973 and the M100e in Germany in 1989.

I was just wondering, does anyone know how their numbering system worked to figure out what the differnce would have been between them? This is now apart from the visual differences, ie, variable speed control and so on.

There seems to be a M100L as well, but hey.

If anyone has any info, it would be appreciated.

Thanks.

I recently acquired m100e from 1985. Were you able to find manual for these later generation machines? I only see the earlier Prvomajska ALG-100 manual which has some differences.

jdm1 · Sep 16, 2023

90roadster said:
Were you able to find manual for these later generation machines?.

An answered on another topic, these manuals are all hosted on a French website, below the direct link

https://passion-usinages.forumgratuit.org/t5677-prvomajska-alg-100

The later E version with single speed selector manual (in German) is there, but the quality of the documentation, images, and digitizing is poor.
To my knowledge nothing else is publicly available on the Interweb.

90roadster · Sep 22, 2023

I appreciate the link! Mine appears to be even later, circa 1985, the hand wheels and associated quick disengagement assembly is bit different than what’s shown.

jdm1 · Sep 23, 2023

90roadster said:
I appreciate the link! Mine appears to be even later, circa 1985, the hand wheels and associated quick disengagement assembly is bit different than what’s shown.

May I suggest that you post some pictures for knowledge and documentation purposes.
Prvomajiska is still in business, even if smaller and different than before the dissolving of Yugoslavia. I suppose they would supply technical information if asked. It's not like a spare part that when they don't have is not made anymore.

90roadster · Dec 8, 2023

Some photos attached. Wondering if anyone had to tackle 380v 50c motor/control panel and convert for USA operation?

Peter from Holland · Dec 8, 2023

Manuals bought from Prvomajska are a real PITA
They insist on sending a hard copy But print is of so poor quality I insisted on the pdf file
A bit better but still poor
In fact the files on that french forum came from me
And in fact Prvomajska gives very bad support IMHO

Peter

AlfaGTA · Dec 8, 2023

Have had many 380v,50Hz FP-NC's No problems....main drive motors run a bit faster.
You just need a transformer.....
Cheers Ross

Peter from Holland · Dec 8, 2023

It is better to use a transformer with higher voltage. 440 or so for the motors
Peter

jdm1 · Dec 29, 2023

Peter from Holland said:
And in fact Prvomajska gives very bad support IMHO

I've contacted them for the first time recentely, I didn’t needed any support but just made general inquries.
I got the impression that despite the good intentions, they are quite detached from the current market that is potentially there for the "not much" they can offer at the present time.

jdm1 · Dec 31, 2023

90roadster said:
I appreciate the link! Mine appears to be even later, circa 1985, the hand wheels and associated quick disengagement assembly is bit different than what’s shown.

Interesting, there is no electrical cabinet?
If so they returned to the very first design of the A model, with all the components in the column.
But I think they just brought back the switches there.

AlfaGTA · Dec 31, 2023

Peter from Holland said:
It is better to use a transformer with higher voltage. 440 or so for the motors
Peter

Not sure I understand this statement.
Motor running on 60 cycles will already be running faster. Why over voltage as well?
Cheers Ross

Peter from Holland · Dec 31, 2023

Because voltage on a 3ph motor depends on the frequentie From 50 to 60 hz is 20% more So the perfect voltage would be 380 +72 =452 volts
As I understand it 440 is a much used voltage in the US So that would be a good choise

Peter

jdm1 · Dec 31, 2023

Peter from Holland said:
Because voltage on a 3ph motor depends on the frequentie

I am not sure what do you mean with that. In a power distribution system, voltage and frequency are values set by the supplier.
Nominal voltage at the source is indicated as an RMS value, hence it depends on frequency, but that has nothing to do with the number of phases, or the type of loads.
Incidentally the fact that tan RMS values of an AC voltage already takes into account the frequencies makes so that values taken for different frequencies are directly comparable.

Peter from Holland said:
From 50 to 60 hz is 20% more So the perfect voltage would be 380 +72 =452 volts

If you are saying that one should increase the voltage supplied to a motor proportionally with the frequency increase, that is something unheard of, either in theory or practice, and potentially damaging or dangerous. And the paragraph that I wrote above about RMS explains why it is so.

Peter from Holland said:
As I understand it 440 is a much used voltage in the US So that would be a good choise

In fact that would be a bad idea. For a motor designed (wound for) for 380 - 400V, supplying a nominal 440V is too close to the upper value of the commonly adopted tolerance of - + 10%.
Below an article on the negative effects of overvolting motors

Overvoltage: The Silent Killer of Electric Motors - SafetyFrenzy

Motor overvoltage can lead to insulation breakdown, increased thermal stress, reduced efficiency, mechanical damage, and potential motor failure.

www.safetyfrenzy.com

90roadster · Jan 1, 2024

jdm1 said:
Interesting, there is no electrical cabinet?
If so they returned to the very first design of the A model, with all the components in the column.
But I think they just brought back the switches there.

Has electrical cabinet. I actually just ran it for first time with 380v transformer, all worked well. video here:

Taras on Instagram: "What does it take to run a 1985 yugoslavian made German sold 380 volt 3 phase Milling Machine in your garage? Well to start 220v 20 amp power, rotary phase converter, 380 volt transformer with wye neural. This is first test run

932 likes, 46 comments - tar_mec on December 16, 2023: "What does it take to run a 1985 yugoslavian made German sold 380 volt 3 phase Milling Machine in ..."

www.instagram.com

jdm1 · Feb 21, 2024

jdm1 said:
If you are saying that one should increase the voltage supplied to a motor proportionally with the frequency increase, that is something unheard of, either in theory or practice, and potentially damaging or dangerous. And the paragraph that I wrote above about RMS explains why it is so.

I must apologize to Peter for having said the above, that's incorrect due to my ignorance.. Someone on this forum has explained to me the basics of the magnetizing current (Volts per Hertz) and related calculations. Interesting matter that I still need to learn better.

Macmon m100c vs M100e

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