Miron WF2SA Soooo nice
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  1. #1
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    Default Miron WF2SA Soooo nice

    I just got a Mikron WF2SA in
    Bought it in Germany
    Nothing special so far as I am a machinerydealer and I do not diskus all my machines here
    But this is special
    As soon as I switched on the spindle I new it
    That sounds good
    After I changed speed to max I knew for sure
    Never had a machine that was so quiet
    I took out the Db meter and it averages out at 75.5Db Peak was 77.1Db
    Here some pics of the thing





    More in my album
    https://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/members/peter-from-holland/albums/mikron-wf2sa/

    Peter

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    Nice.... the limit switch on Y is not very elegant but otherwise nice... Does it use DIN 2080 SK40 tools ? Is it "Activ" ?

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    What is the circled black item for in the photo below? Horizontal quill? (It seems to be too far back from the headstock face for that, but maybe??)
    dsc01030.jpg

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    Milacron
    This one uses Deckel tooling But that would be easy to swap
    It has the TNC 114 which is a build in active
    rklopp
    The circled black item is a square hole to insert a key to clamp tooling in the horisontal spindel
    No hor quill
    I had a old Deckel FP2 once from the 50ies that was also very quiet running But this one beats all
    If you go to my website you see my asking price
    Is that low, reasonable, high end, or over the top according to the experts here ??

    Peter

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    Peter, I'm not an expert. But the machine looks like it's almost new and not used much. So assuming that the geometry is in good shape, I think the price is perfectly fair for a machine with an "active" control. Cheers, Bruce

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    Stupid thing is I wanted to have a idea of the going price so asked for a offer on Maschinensucher
    Well I got offered the exact machine that I just had unloaded And even for a reasonable price
    Different pictures but this exact machine
    I bought it from Ebay kleinanzeigen from the owner A small compagny
    Did the former owner know the machine was offered on Maschinensucher by a third party I asked myself
    The different pictures do indicate he did know about it

    Peter

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    Nice machine....presentation for my eye looks a bit busy.....Looks like stuff /controls added on , less integrated, but maybe it is just
    a case of not being familiar with that machine...

    Can you tell us what the spindle speed range is for that machine....shift mechanism looks to have 6 different selector positions...is the motor two speed?

    Thanks for sharing.
    Cheers Ross

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    I have to swap out the TNC114 I think
    It behaves wierd
    For some reasson the powerfeed is always on and cannot be switched off in manual mode
    Changing to active powerfeed stops and then it cannot be engaged anymore Actually the pushbuttons on and off powerfeed do nothing Only the light burns when the on button is kept pressed
    The pushbuttons on the TNC are suspect also
    I cleaned these pushbuttons a bit with brakecleaner from the outside and we got some things working But not all
    I think I have a spare on Otherwise order one at Singer
    Peter

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    A link to the page where my machine is still offered
    I took of the sticker as I am going to fix that
    https://www.maschinensucher.de/fy/inserat/inseratliste/index?katIdPath%5B0%5D=2&katIdPath%5B1%5D=218&stic hwort=WF2SA

    Peter

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    She is a beauty...Although I found her (pre-Peter) price very tempting, it is a bit small for my envelope...

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    Zephyrous
    I can help you out on that one I also have its bigger brother Happy to sell it to you
    Also in pristine condition
    Travels 500x500x380


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    I guess the fear of aging NC controls failing is high in that market sector to justify that price

    I think I'd have to consider converting my Fehlmann Picomax 51 CNC to hand cranks if I'll be forced to sell it, running out of room in the shop too quickly, Chiron FZ 12 W coming in, and I doubt I'll have time to play with the P51 much after Chiron arrives...

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    If I wanted to make money with a milling machine I would go CNC No doubt
    But these machines I sell to R&D and maintenance departments who use them now and then No chance to learn CNC talk
    But if a customer comes in he sees at least a quality machine Not a cheap noisemaker
    A new noisemaker is about the same price So take your pick

    Peter

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    please don't think I'm critisizing your pricing, I see value of a manual machine in excellent condition, much easier to set up for a single piece one/two feature quickie than fiddling with older CNC controls, especially if the operator is not familiar with NC at all

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    Quote Originally Posted by jz79 View Post
    , much easier to set up for a single piece one/two feature quickie than fiddling with older CNC controls, especially if the operator is not familiar with NC at all
    Not at all sure i would agree with that statement. Some of the older CNC controls are pretty slick at doing the simple stuff...Not super featured and long term reliability might be an issue...
    But i would wager that i can do a simple job ..mill an edge, drill some holes etc on my Dialog4 fitted FP4NC as fast as most experienced manual machine guys doing the same work on a manual machine...
    Especially if there any tool changes needed.

    Cheers Ross

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    Ross
    Notice this
    especially if the operator is not familiar with NC
    You are familiar with your machine But what if you have to start from scratch and then were on the machine just 1 hour a week ?
    Oke with newer machines and younger people working with other controled machines that might be different
    But then you have another pricetag too
    Many of my machines end up in R&D where all fabrication is outsoarced Only assembling and tweaking is done in house
    So only for making smaller adaptations R&D you know
    The same with maintenance
    Machine breakes down in the weekend and a shaft needs a keyway NOW And the guy knows nothing about CNC Knows nothing about manual milling eighter perhaps But with a manual machine he gets by
    Sold a mikron WF3SA once to a R&D shop where they had the same machine in a different location
    The guy had never used the powerfeeds

    Peter

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter from Holland View Post
    ..you see my asking price
    Is that low, reasonable, high end, or over the top according to the experts here ??

    Peter
    "all of the above", of course. It's PM. What else would you expect?


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    Peter:
    Your point is valid.. If you have a work force that is unskilled or unwilling to try different approaches then the manual setup pays.....
    But to think you need any familiarization with "CNC" to do simple non programmed work on say a Dialog4 controlled machine just is not true.

    As simple to run as any DRO fitted manual mill......Just really need to know how to turn it on....Turn a dial to select the spindle speed (simpler than selecting gear levers) and press the spindle forward button.

    There are hand wheels if you really must....and the control is laid out on the operators panel in groups so its easy to see that each section has a purpose...Power on /off feed rate, feed override spindle speed, forward/reverse....
    Tool change...its just that simple....
    Don't need to enter one line of code to make it run....Its just buttons and they have graphics to show what they do.....

    Biggest negative i see in a repair or R&D setup is that if the CNC is down the entire machine is out of commission, perhaps when most needed....And for most this would be reason enough to go with the manual machine....

    Cheers Ross

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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    "all of the above", of course. It's PM. What else would you expect?

    This is one of the rare events I understand and totaly agree with you

    Peter

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