Miron WF2SA Soooo nice - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    Ross, not all controls are that straight forward, it took me about a week to get familiar with Heidenhains TNC, and that particular setup doesn't have spindle speed selector, you need to issue software commands to get it running, it does have a "forward" button and stop (m03 and m05 hardware buttons basically), but if you need manual reverse (m04), then back to issuing commands again on the control, and I haven't found a way to do that in manual mode, I just write a new program with comple lines to do that

    I recently bought a new soldering iron for my dad who is just over 70, and he refuses to use it because it has an oled display, a sleep timer, you can also adjust clock on it and a mirriad of other functions which scare him, he is still using an old Velleman which has burn marks on it, lcd stops working once the unit heats up past 30 degrees C and temperature control barely can be called a control any more...
    I wanted to talk him into ditching his unmentionable far eastern manual 40 taper mill and use the Picomax51 instead, but if the soldering station is too confusing for him, getting him to learn the TNC155 will be impossible

    for me, I'm all the way with you, once I figured out the TNC, I wanted to cry about all the time I wasted cranking handles and staring at the DROs, but things like that don't come easily to everyone

  2. #22
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    For sure....
    Think that is the reason that Deckel fitted the first gen FP-NC's with hand wheels..
    Their target market were tool makers and the like who were comfortable with manual machines....
    Those hand wheels although almost worthless, were a concuss effort by the factory to give those "Old Hands" a safety blanket...

    Cheers Ross

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    Peter- what is the folding arm for on the "off side" above the oiler?
    Is that factory?
    Cool machine- thanks for posting.

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    folding arm is for holding the vertical head while you use the horizontal spindle

    ps. the "2nd" arm under the swinging one is for parking the moveable arm, on the WF41 there was some sort of arrangement, then when locked together, the end link on the swing arm cannot swing freely any more as well

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  6. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colt45 View Post
    Peter- what is the folding arm for on the "off side" above the oiler?
    Is that factory?
    Cool machine- thanks for posting.
    That is a swing arm you can bolt the angle head to and swing it out of the way for horizontal mode

    Here is a example


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  8. #26
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    Hello Peter
    I just got that exactly machine but I can't find any documentation on the web, do you know where can I find the manual?
    That is a beautiful machine

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    There is a sticky in the manuals section in this board with a link to a french website with tof manuals
    Check that out please

    Peter

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  11. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlfaGTA View Post
    For sure....
    Think that is the reason that Deckel fitted the first gen FP-NC's with hand wheels..
    Their target market were tool makers and the like who were comfortable with manual machines....
    Those hand wheels although almost worthless, were a concuss effort by the factory to give those "Old Hands" a safety blanket...

    Cheers Ross
    My 83 and 86 FPNC's both have no hand wheels. Wonder why the 3m machines didn't have them. My 83 has a removable crank handle and the 86 only has an Allen socket on the end of the servo. The only time I have ever found the need to use them was if I had overrun the limit switch and had to manually crank them back a bit.

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    Kind of nice to be able to move the "X" slide manually when removing/cleaning the linear encoder scale....
    Cheers Ross

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    If you have a set up that is close to, or at the limits of the machine travels, using the handwheels sometimes lets you sneak a little extra travel from the machine that is not available when using the control or MPG. Mostly find the handwheels useful when servicing the machine, like Ross mentioned.

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    That's interesting regarding the noise levels Peter. If you remember I bought a WF1 from you a couple of years ago which required the vertical head casting being repaired.

    I have been refurbishing the machine for about a year now and it's very close to being re-assembled. When the machine arrived I measured the noise as I was surprised how quiet it was.

    At full speed with the vertical head it measured around 70dB both forward and reverse at a distance of 1mtr. Admittedly it was measured with an app on my phone which is not ideal but I was impressed for a fifty year old machine, but then the Swiss do know how to build gear boxes.

    Whilst on the subject of Mikron, I am after a set of X way bellows for the WF1 which is the same as the WF2.
    If anybody knows of a supply or has some I would be grateful. I know they are available from Singer but I can't afford their fancy prices.

    Ciao Adrian.

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    Quote Originally Posted by adrian View Post
    But then the Swiss do know how to build gear boxes.
    Gearboxes perhaps, but as for gears, they had a tendancy to favor straight gears wich tend to become noisy to *very* noisy over time.
    I've always been amazed by the horrible noise the head of a Schaublin 13 can produce, when the belt variator would allow for a very quiet machine.
    None of the deckel FP1's I've used to date developped the same flaw.

    Same for the Schaublin 150 low gear.

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    I agree on the Schaublin 13 being able to produce a tremendous amount of noise
    Gears are tricky It looks so simple But its not
    Friend of mine is a expert in gears Big ones mainly but the principales are the same
    Nowadays technologie makes it possible to produce gears on a 5 axes machine in which the rubbing part of the motion is greatly reduced if not all removed in favor of a rolling motion Less wear and less noise is the result of that (Transmission for cars for example)
    To do that you have to alter the pressure angle for each gearset On conventional machines you would need to have different tools for each gear That was to cosly in most cases. CNC changed all
    that

    Altering the pressure angle also makes it possible to make gears with 4 teeth like in the reduction of electric handdrills for example

    Peter

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter from Holland View Post
    Nowadays technologie makes it possible to produce gears on a 5 axes machine in which the rubbing part of the motion is greatly reduced if not all removed in favor of a rolling motion Less wear and less noise is the result of that (Transmission for cars for example)
    To do that you have to alter the pressure angle for each gearset On conventional machines you would need to have different tools for each gear That was to cosly in most cases. CNC changed all
    that

    Altering the pressure angle also makes it possible to make gears with 4 teeth like in the reduction of electric handdrills for example
    Umm, not really.

    The 22.5* pressure angle trick is very old, you get more rolling but also a lot more side loading, efficiency is often lower; as with all things, it's a tradeoff. Can be and is done with 22.5* PA hobs or shaper cutters, no big deal. Can even be done as drop-tooth gears with 20* cutters, which automatically raises the pressure angle.

    You can and people do manipulate involute profiles all over the place. Been done for a hundred years.

    Hypoid rear end gearsets were generally recess-action, that's why they are quiet going forward and noisy in reverse. There's your problem with recess action, it only works in one mode. You can pretty easily do recess action gear pairs with standard tools, they are just long-addendum / short-addendum gearsets. All standard tooling, big bubbles no troubles. When were rear-drive cars last popular, 1980 ?

    I've seen one-tooth gears made on a Sykes, eighty years ago, it's no big deal. And hand drills use powder metal gears, you can make them any way you want, even use some of zahnrad's favorite novikov weirdities

    You don't need "modern" five axis machines to do any of this, nor anything special in the way of tooling. No more special than any high-volume gears already use, anyway.

    The only real revolution I have seen in fifty years of cutting teeth is the ability to contour bevels via cnc. For high production that's still impractical, but if you have one pair of 2 meter spiral bevels to make, cnc machining with a small ball-end is a real breakthrough.

    Everything else has been around since the 1920's. Most of it even earlier.

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  20. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post

    Everything else has been around since the 1920's. Most of it even earlier.
    Still, Schaublin didn't know how to make gears that would remain quiet over the years in 1950/60...
    Even in 1980/90 judging from my rattling 150.
    Just grumbling...

  21. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post
    Umm, not really.

    The 22.5* pressure angle trick is very old, you get more rolling but also a lot more side loading, efficiency is often lower; as with all things, it's a tradeoff. Can be and is done with 22.5* PA hobs or shaper cutters, no big deal. Can even be done as drop-tooth gears with 20* cutters, which automatically raises the pressure angle.

    You can and people do manipulate involute profiles all over the place. Been done for a hundred years.

    Hypoid rear end gearsets were generally recess-action, that's why they are quiet going forward and noisy in reverse. There's your problem with recess action, it only works in one mode. You can pretty easily do recess action gear pairs with standard tools, they are just long-addendum / short-addendum gearsets. All standard tooling, big bubbles no troubles. When were rear-drive cars last popular, 1980 ?

    I've seen one-tooth gears made on a Sykes, eighty years ago, it's no big deal. And hand drills use powder metal gears, you can make them any way you want, even use some of zahnrad's favorite novikov weirdities

    You don't need "modern" five axis machines to do any of this, nor anything special in the way of tooling. No more special than any high-volume gears already use, anyway.

    The only real revolution I have seen in fifty years of cutting teeth is the ability to contour bevels via cnc. For high production that's still impractical, but if you have one pair of 2 meter spiral bevels to make, cnc machining with a small ball-end is a real breakthrough.

    Everything else has been around since the 1920's. Most of it even earlier.

    The 5 axes is for bevel gears yes in particular
    But for one offs smaller ones too
    The thing is you do not need a miljoen dollar machine anymore for just one kind of product
    And for oval straight gears a CNC is handy too
    You can also design your own gearshape Bevel gears with a S shape for example
    The software is not cheap though I heard

    Peter


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