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  1. #1
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    Default New Deckel FP2 owner

    Hello All,

    I have been lurking the forum here for a little while while I finalized the deal but now I am an official FP2 owner. It is a 2 dial serial number 4944 which I believe makes it a 1965. I am hoping to bring it home on Friday but will have to see how the work schedule goes.

    The machine appears to be in decent condition, it has about 0.25mm backlash in the X and the Y axis and just slightly less on the ends of travel. The door side X axis bellows are missing but the operator side and Y axis bellows are present and appear to be in good shape. Also the inching wheel is broke and off the machine.

    I haven't been able to test run it where it is but I have spun the gear train and feeds by hand from the vertical spindle and everything feels pretty good, at least no obvious signs of damage or trouble. It is currently setup for 550V so I plan to get a replacement 230V motor and have already ordered a VFD. First step will be a thorough cleaning and inspection so it may be some time before I actually get it running.

    I do have a couple questions.

    1. Is wrench still selling the DVD? If not does anyone have a good reasonably priced source for English operator and spare parts manuals?

    2. Does anyone here have an inching wheel or door side X axis bellows for sale? I have no problem ordering them from Singer but figured I would support the forum members first if possible.

    Anyway I just wanted to give a quick introduction. This is just a hobby for me and this machine should greatly increase my capabilities for my projects.

    Shawn


    deckel-2.jpgdeckel-1.jpg

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    welcome, you'll love it!

    BR,
    Thanos

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    Hi Shawn

    Good to hear you've got a Deckel, great versatile machines. Don't think you'll have a problem getting English Operating Instructions or Parts Manuals ... If no one nearer comes forward give me a shout.

    John

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    Hi Shawn,

    Quote Originally Posted by 65AMC View Post
    I am an official FP2 owner. It is a 2 dial serial number 4944 which I believe makes it a 1965.
    Welcome! I've got serial number 4220 (from the end of 1964) and others here have close cousins and sisters of your machine. They seem to have had a good run around this time, lots of those machines are still around and doing accurate work.

    The machine appears to be in decent condition, it has about 0.25mm backlash in the X and the Y axis and just slightly less on the ends of travel.
    If you add a DRO the backlash is probably not enough to be a problem. You can get replacement X and Y feed screw nuts from Franz Singer for around 150 Euros each, which will probably drop the backlash into the 0.05-0.1mm range. Assuming that you have a metric lead screws, here are the parts:

    Y-Achse Spindelmutter 2200-659-50 bis Bj.67 fur Deckel FP2 Frasmaschine | eBay

    X-Achse Spindelmutter neuwertig FP2 bis Bj.1960 -1975 fu Deckel Frasmaschine | eBay

    The door side X axis bellows are missing
    You should replace this. I think your machine is a 500 mm travel. Here's the part:

    X - Balg 2200-1278 FP2 fur Deckel Frasmaschine (x 500mm) | eBay

    Here's a "used" one for a bit less. To my eyes it looks new, just old stock:
    X - Balg 2200-1278 FP2 gebr. fur Deckel Frasmaschine (x 500mm) | eBay

    Also the inching wheel is broke and off the machine.
    Here's the part:
    Handrad D180mm gebr. fur die konv. Deckel Frasmaschine FP1,2,3 | eBay

    First step will be a thorough cleaning and inspection so it may be some time before I actually get it running.
    That's a good idea. The things that look like "grease nipples" are for bedway oil. If these have been pumped with grease you may need to take apart the machine to clean out the grease, since otherwise it prevents bedway oil from reaching and lubricating the gibs, slides and internal gearing and clutches.

    I've sent you a link to some FP2 manuals, check your email.

    Cheers,
    Bruce
    Last edited by ballen; 10-25-2019 at 01:51 AM.

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    wrench still has the DVD contents available, you should PM him directly.

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    For the inching wheel I would buy the smaller 105mm one Much cheaper and works fine
    Even safer perhaps

    Handrad D105 fur die konv. Deckel Frasmaschine 2001-168 | eBay

    I would not bother with new nuts for the feeds That amount of backlach would not bother me at all
    But you could first check if the spindle itself is locked up solid between the thrust bearings

    Peter

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    Congrats on your FP2.

    I have 5084 (test papers say december 1966), so you sit between Ballen and me.
    If you need anything, just give us a shout.
    How are you fixed for accessories and tooling?
    Anything we should look out for?

    Cheers
    Erik

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    Hi Shawn
    Welcome to PM and the Deckel forum.
    I have an "inching hand wheel" that was made by someone. That hand wheel was on my FP3 when I got it but has since been replaced by a cheap used factory wheel. You can have it for the price of shipping if you would like it?
    Not sure if the mount is the same but I think so.

    042.jpg043.jpg

    Did you find out if the CD is still available? I still need an English manual for the FP3 wonder if it is on the CD?

    Andy

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    Hey guys,

    Just my 2 cents. If you're using your Deckel for everything, you'll eventually power tap. And, unless you modify the electrics, you have no other way of retracting the tap than the inching wheel. In this case, the large wheel is preferable, just makes your life easier.

    Br,
    Thanos

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    Default Update Part 1

    First of all I want to thank everyone who has replied so far. I want to start with an update of where things stand and then will respond to those who commented.

    Well the FP2 made it home last Friday without much fuss. Unfortunately I think the best way to do this is a bit of a good news bad news story. Ignore the mess in the background please...
    deckel-3.jpg

    The good news is that the mill came with an Allmatic HD 160 vise even though it has some marks on it I don't think it will hurt the function too much. The vise can be seen in my first post.

    The bad - when I removed the vise in order to remove the table to get the high mounted weight off for moving it I found the vise was hiding about a 4 inch diameter circle cur into the top of the table. It looks like someone ran a flycutter or other large diameter cutter into the table.

    More bad - Ironically I was reading through Bruce's thread about his grease packed FP2 the morning I moved the mill so once I had it home I figured the best first step would be to remove the oil nipples and check. Of course both were packed full of grease. Looks like a full tear down to clean out the passages. Again many thanks to Bruce for his well documented procedure for this.

    The good - So of course over last weekend I began the teardown. I have so far pulled the X axis off but I want to get those components cleaned up before I pull the Z. Fortunately for me I don't think the machine was ran much if at all with grease in it. While the horizontal passage to the operator side was packed full, it does not look like it made it to any of the ways. I have pulled all of the gibs and even though they definitely show signs of wear which is to be expected the worst worn areas still show slight signs of the original scraping. So the wear is not really any deeper than the original scraping was. The X axis retainers show the worst wear on the outsides. However there are still a couple of tiny scrape marks still to be found. Being just a hobbyist I think I will just clean everything really well and make sure it stays oiled. The accuracy will be more than sufficient for my needs.
    deckel-4.jpgdeckel-5.jpgdeckel-7.jpg

    To be continued due to picture limit.

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    Default Update Part 2

    A bit more bad news - I pulled the vertical spindle off since the paint would not let me slide the whole head back to get out of my way. It appears it was severely crashed and ripped off at some point. Oh and packed right full of grease to add insult to injury.
    deckel-8.jpg

    The good news is that it seems to have been at least reasonably repaired and some very long T nuts made to now hold it in place. I will clean everything up and check for highspots though I don't expect any and use it.
    deckel-9.jpg

    The bad - the original or what I assume is the original motor was rewound at some point for 550 volts. Though I knew this since the mill lived at my work before I dragged it home so not a big deal.

    The good - I found a Baldor mm3611 motor which is a dual volatge 100L frame that should fit nicely. Bonus is it was only $200 us with free shipping on eBay. It was actually delivered yesterday but I have not seen it yet since I am typing this while waiting for my flight home.

    Of one more picture of the ways I have gotten to so far. It wouldn't fit in my last post.
    deckel-6.jpg

    That is about all for the update so far. I need to get an email direct to Herr Singer to see about getting some parts I mentioned earlier and that Bruce was kind enough to give links for. I sent him a message through eBay but he never responded. Unfortunately I think getting this FP2 making chips will take some time between waiting for items I order to come in and a work schedule that is going to keep me on the road quite a bit the next few weeks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter from Holland View Post
    For the inching wheel I would buy the smaller 105mm one Much cheaper and works fine
    Even safer perhaps

    Handrad D105 fur die konv. Deckel Frasmaschine 2001-168 | eBay

    I would not bother with new nuts for the feeds That amount of backlach would not bother me at all
    But you could first check if the spindle itself is locked up solid between the thrust bearings

    Peter
    I am not concerned with the backlash at all. I fully intend to order a DRO once I get it making chips so I can make new mounts. The are some curios screws that definitely are not factory so I believe this had a DRO at some point. I think stating the backlash in mm makes it sound worse than it is. 0.25mm is only 0.010" which I think is fantastic for a 54 year old machine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ballen View Post

    That's a good idea. The things that look like "grease nipples" are for bedway oil. If these have been pumped with grease you may need to take apart the machine to clean out the grease, since otherwise it prevents bedway oil from reaching and lubricating the gibs, slides and internal gearing and clutches.

    Cheers,
    Bruce
    Thank you Bruce.Of course it was full of grease. I think I may have been fortunate though. Details in my update. I am curios to see what the experts have to think of the wear.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Erik View Post
    Congrats on your FP2.

    I have 5084 (test papers say december 1966), so you sit between Ballen and me.
    If you need anything, just give us a shout.
    How are you fixed for accessories and tooling?
    Anything we should look out for?

    Cheers
    Erik
    I am glad to see so many members here are keeping these old machines alive. The German equipment has a bit of a special place for me. Maybe that is because I currently work for a German equipment manufacturer.

    I don't have much for tooling yet. It came with a couple of shell mill holders and an OZ 25 collet chuck. Of course an oddball but I am having some success finding reasonably priced collets. Also the mill came with an Allmatic HD 160 vise which is overkill I think but considering what I paid for everything is less than what the vise is worth I have plenty of budget for new tooling.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 65AMC View Post
    Thank you Bruce.Of course it was full of grease. I think I may have been fortunate though. Details in my update.
    Sorry to hear about the grease. Are the details/update in a different thread? Or will you post those here? Many people here have removed the supports from their machines and cleaned out the grease, so if you need to do this, then the procedure is well documented.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy St View Post
    Hi Shawn
    Welcome to PM and the Deckel forum.
    I have an "inching hand wheel" that was made by someone. That hand wheel was on my FP3 when I got it but has since been replaced by a cheap used factory wheel. You can have it for the price of shipping if you would like it?
    Not sure if the mount is the same but I think so.

    042.jpg043.jpg

    Did you find out if the CD is still available? I still need an English manual for the FP3 wonder if it is on the CD?

    Andy
    Andy - thank you for the offer and I think I will take you up on that. At the very least it will allow me to secure the pulley for a test run while I decide. Infact I think if I put that wheel in the lathe and put more of a half round on the rim and paint the center it wouldn't look too out of place compared to the rest of the hand wheels. The Y and the horizontal quill both have solid center wheels.

    I plan on sending wrench a PM now. If I hear back I will let you know.

    Do you want to send me a PM with your info. I have PayPal or we could work something else out for shipping if you prefer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thanvg View Post
    Hey guys,

    Just my 2 cents. If you're using your Deckel for everything, you'll eventually power tap. And, unless you modify the electrics, you have no other way of retracting the tap than the inching wheel. In this case, the large wheel is preferable, just makes your life easier.

    Br,
    Thanos
    Thanos - I don't think there is much detriment to having a large inching wheel at all. I have no intention of spending much time behind the mill while it is running. I have considered power tapping and I am already planning on installing a VFD to power the mill since I don't have 3 phase power at home my intention is to add a reverse jog button so I can reverse the spindle but have to hold the button in to do it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 65AMC View Post
    Thanos - I don't think there is much detriment to having a large inching wheel at all. I have no intention of spending much time behind the mill while it is running. I have considered power tapping and I am already planning on installing a VFD to power the mill since I don't have 3 phase power at home my intention is to add a reverse jog button so I can reverse the spindle but have to hold the button in to do it.
    Well, like I said, just my take on this: I power tap at very log RPM (e.g. 40). Stop, switch to high speed on the gearbox and use the inching wheel to retract the tap. At high speed it only takes a couple of turns, but you need the large diameter torque....

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    Quote Originally Posted by ballen View Post
    Sorry to hear about the grease. Are the details/update in a different thread? Or will you post those here? Many people here have removed the supports from their machines and cleaned out the grease, so if you need to do this, then the procedure is well documented.
    The details I have are actually above this post. These posts just showed up first since my update needed to be approved. I actually used a lot of the info from your thread to proceed. I won't do an in depth mainly because it has been covered well in the past and I am way too scatter brained to focus and document one aspect at time.

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