New Deckel FP2 owner from South Africa
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  1. #1
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    Default New Deckel FP2 owner from South Africa

    Hi Everyone,

    I've just joined the Forum, and am quite excited because I'm in the process of purchasing a Deckel FP2 Gen3 (I think...). I will be visiting two sellers this week (traveling about 1000km in the process...) looking at their serial number 2002 (manufactured in 1981, I believe) machines, and will hopefully be bringing one home with me .

    I currently use a small Chinese made Mill/Drill machine, and really look forward to being able to do some serious milling with my "new" first proper mill. Not knowing this machine at all, I have spent quite a few hours on the internet, and especially on this site, reading everything that I can find regarding the Deckel. One thing that I did discover was an absolute lack of information about the "square" Gen 3 FP2's - and I could not find even one operators manual.

    I would thus really appreciate it if someone could send me a copy of such a manual - please send me a PM with your details, and I will send my email address in return.

    To all the Deckel "Old Hands": thanks in advance for being here for us Newbies

    Regards
    HennieL

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    Some feedback...

    I've just returned from my trip to look at the two machines. The one is totally shot - spindle bearing are very noisy, especially at high speed, the table is full of holes, the whole machine is generally worn out.

    The second machine is in a much better over-all condition, but none of the power feeds are working as expected. This could quite possibly be because I just don't know how to operate the Heidenhain, but I suspect that it has a sheared-off shearing pin, as none of the 3 directions are feeding properly. When starting the feed of e.g. the Y-axes (with the lever that looks like a gear lever) the it starts to move at a reasonable rate, but immediately slows down to virtually no movement. This is the same for X, Y and Z travel, and for both directions on each. It is also, obviously, a possibility that there is a fault in the electronics...

    Questions:

    - Can someone please explain the workings of the various knobs on the Heidenhain control unit for me?
    - Can someone please explain the workings of the "gear lever" control lever - I noticed that it has three positions left to right, and two positions front to back (at least that's what I could engage...).
    - there's a small metal disk " knob" at the lower back of the right hand panel (same side where the spindle speed selector is located), that results in a "click" in the control gear housing when turned. what does this disk control?
    - Lastly, can anyone supply me with an electronic copy of an English users manual - then I can read it and stop asking stupid questions

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    I can give you the manuals (that I have, for earlier versions sadly), sending a PM.

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    Thanks Dennis - I received them.

    Much appreciated - and they will help a lot

    Now if someone could just explain what the bottom row of press switches do on the Heidenhain TCN111 DRO I can really get going. So far, I've only been able to figure out that the top row is the spindle off / on slow / on fast button switches, and the right-most button on the bottom row is the "fast" jog/shuttle switch. The other switches are presumably connected with the XYZ feeds, but I could not manage to get any of them to do anything

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    To power up the feedmotor you have to press the third and fourth button from the left simultaniously (bottem row) Thats what to do first
    The far right one is rapids You should hear the motor if this one is pressed even without any feeds engaged
    The second from the left is stop powerfeed
    The far left is creepfeed That makes the feed turn realy slow to creep up to a point
    If something is not working
    A rebuild TNC costs about 700 euro in exchange
    To repare the drive costs about 250 euro
    Prices are without shipping charges That might make it a bit more expencive

    Peter

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    Veele dank, Peter.

    You're right - given the dismal exchange rate between Euros and SA Rand, that's going to be very expensive - that 700 Euro is something like the equivalent of 2200 tins of Coke in South Africa...

    There's a smallish square motor below the main motor - would that be the drive motor for the table movement? If so, is it a low voltage DC motor, or also 3-phase like the main motor?

    Thanks again to everyone that has responded so far.

    Hennie

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    That small motor is indeed a DC motor 160 Volts I would not call it low voltage
    The speeds and voltage are on the name plate
    Peter

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    This is the machine that I made an offer on - hope to get an acceptance by tomorrow
    img_4674.jpg img_4669.jpg

    Can someone please confirm from these photos - is this a 3rd generation FP2?

    Also, can someone please elaborate on the differences between this "square" model and the earlier "round" models?

    Lastly, I would greatly appreciate it if someone could send me an operators manual for this particular model - I am very grateful to Dennis for the manual that he sent me, but that was for the previous model, and I would like to start off with using the correct manual - and thus ensuring that e.g. the lubrication of the machine is done correctly.

    Thanks again for everyone's assistance and advice.

    Hennie

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  12. #9
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    I have several manuals But all in German

    Peter

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    Thanks Peter - my German is rusty, but I should be able to understand most - especially with the help of Google Translate.

    I will send you a PM with my email address.

    Groete

    Hennie

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    Big difference between the first gen FP2 and 3rd (square head) is the construction of the "Y" axis.
    On the square head machines the top of the "Y" casting is flat and has a dovetail along the top for the full length.
    This allows the vertical head to be slid to the rear when fitting accessories or running horizontal....
    The earlier version machines fit the vertical head to dovetails , but only in one position, fully forward. So to mount accessories or run horizontal one must remove the vertical head.

    Further having the full length dovetails on top to carry the vertical head also allows running the vertical head in various positions along that dovetail, in effect extending the reach of the machine in the "Y"
    axis above the movement range of the "Y" slide.....
    There are additional changes as one might expect from a design that lasted long and was improved throughout its life cycle....
    The 3rd gen machines should have a power way lube setup with an oil tank along with improved distribution of that oil to the ways.(real feed checks to all the needed spots)
    Late gen3 machines will also have extended width ways on the "X" axis slide to aide in stability...

    The horizontal draw bar Allen bolt on the gen3 machine will be extended to the rear of the "Y" slide, where the earlier machines have the draw bar bolt recessed into the "Y" slide which makes tool changes more
    difficult....
    Further the draw bar bolt for the vertical head was changed to an Allen over the earlier square ended bolt.....
    Late machine should also have higher spindle speed (2500) as opposed to the 23000 RPM of the first gen machines....

    Finally the feed on the Gen3 machine is done via DC motor, not gears. So adjusting the feed rate while cutting is easily done...
    And since the Gen3 machine has a separate feed motor, you can feed the table without having the spindle running , this is nice when indicating a part or the table....

    There are additional differences such as the use of improved way wipers in particular on the "Y" axis...Vertical head should also have stops for tram as one must rotate the vertical head
    when using an accessory or going horizontal....(head has to clear the "Y" slide to move to the rear) and going back to vertical the tram stop will aide in tramming the vertical head....

    Of course the late machines also should have factory three axis DRO which the early machines did not....

    I am sure i am forgetting somethings...but you get the idea.
    Cheers Ross

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    Thanks Ross - that's a great help

    Finally the feed on the Gen3 machine is done via DC motor, not gears.
    Like this?
    img_4672.jpg

    Of course the late machines also should have factory three axis DRO which the early machines did not....
    Like this?

    img_4676.jpg

    That's confirmed then - it is a Third Gen. machine

    The 3rd gen machines should have a power way lube setup with an oil tank along with improved distribution of that oil to the ways.(real feed checks to all the needed spots)
    Can you please explain where the oil tank is located - I did not see anything on the outside of the machine that looks like an oil tank.

    Keep well
    Hennie

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    Looks like your machine is not equipped.
    On the FP2/3 factory setup, the ways lubing system is located at the back of the base of the machine, just under the DC feed motor (pump and tank).
    On the FP1 aktiv machines, the system can be found on the left side, at the base of the side panel.

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  19. #14
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    Merci TNB.

    Quote Originally Posted by TNB View Post
    Looks like your machine is not equipped.
    On the FP2/3 factory setup, the ways lubing system is located at the back of the base of the machine, just under the DC feed motor (pump and tank).
    Well %&@#$ looks like my machine is then a 2.8 gen.

    any further information regarding this lube system (e.g. photos of the tank, how does the pump connect to the machine, etc.) would be welcome.

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    Looks like the machine has become "sellers-paint".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kees View Post
    Looks like the machine has become "sellers-paint".
    Yes Kees, I noticed that... The green paint appears to have been professionally done, and looks quite nice - the cream coloured head is just plain fugly and I will probably re-paint it. Of course, the colour of the paint won't affect the performance of the machine - to quote the Bard (out of context...): "A rose by any other name would smell as sweet"

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    Quote Originally Posted by AlfaGTA View Post
    Of course the late machines also should have factory three axis DRO which the early machines did not....
    That is usually the case but FWIW, the early squarehead years (1977/78/79) the DRO (and Activ function that went along with it) was an option. I found this out the hard way years ago when I passed up an otherwise very nice last generation FP1 with no DRO or scales due to my concerns it had been "messed with" too much when in reality it never had scales or DRO in the first place. I realized that the next day but it sold hours earlier to another.

  23. #18
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    Sure:
    All reports of "features " on a specific year or generation of Deckel should always be taken with a grain of salt so to speak.....Deckel seemingly made lots of variants to the "norm" ...seems there was a time
    when a potential buyer could get almost any set of specifications, or color , just had to pay....We have seen a number of cases here which don't follow the rules...

    Cheers Ross

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    Hi Hennie.

    Good job on purchasing your Deckel. Where in South Africa are you based? I'm also a Deckel owner and maybe I can show you some Deckel tooling and just general "get to know your machine" type of things. I'm in the Randburg area.

    Cheers.

    Louis


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