New Deckel owner over here... FP2NC
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  1. #1
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    Default New Deckel owner over here... FP2NC

    Well I bought this machine as a parts machine. Got a good deal at auction. But now the deal for the machine I was buying has fallen through. So I'm debating trying to get this one back in service. Or finding another that needs some love and making one out of them. There are a few things missing and I am taking inventory of them. I'll be asking for help finding them. The most notable thing missing is the table. It was auctioned separately and I got outbid. So I am looking for a table that will work with it.

    img_9714.jpg

    img_9719.jpg

    I am presently trying to determine what is what with the control system too. I have read most of the threads and have thought about trying to do a linuxcnc upfit to it since some things seem to be missing.

    img_9717.jpg

    img_9718.jpg

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    It seems to me you are more of half a Deckel owner
    If you are missing the angle head that would be the major problem IMHO

    Peter

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    Are you referring to the this? The vertical head?

    img_9704.jpg

    Because I have that as well as one of the motors not on it.

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    Hey rodorama, check your PM

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    That looks like the machine from the Procyon auction. Yes $260 was a good deal, congratulations. If the table is all you need, you could substitute a standard angle plate until you find a correct table. Personally, I'd suggest buying a used FP3NC in worn condition but complete and running to rob parts from to reassemble that FP2NC.

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    It is the one from the Procyon auction. This was supposed to be a parts machine for another one, but that fell through. Now I'm on the hunt for parts for this. I've been looking at angle plates already and tables from other machines the may work. I am also on the look out for another parts machine. The big things right now are all the handles and a table.

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    Is that a Dialog or a Siemens 3M based machine? I don't know them well enough to be able to tell visually. The 3M wasn't as common (or as well regarded) as the Dialog, but the D2 seems to be less favorable than the D3/D4.

    I did a fair amount of research in changing to a LinuxCNC once. It is not for the feint of heart. Among other things, there is a fairly elaborate gear changing tango that goes on. It could be done in a PLC, but my thought was that it would probably be easier to accomplish with a simple Arduino, RaspPi, PIC, or similar system.

    I did a LinuxCNC conversion on a Hurco mill once. Let's just say that the adage of "90% of the time is spent doing the last 10% of the work" couldn't be more accurate! It N-E-V-E-R seems to end. The real pain for me was the actual control panel itself. I wanted to make nice engravings for it, but I had a difficult time finding suitable software for that. It really perplexed me why that was the case. Plus, I bit off more than I should have. I should have just kept the mounting arrangement that was originally there and made improvements later. So, if you want to change this machine to LinuxCNC, take a minimalist approach. Just get it working and then go down iterative improvements. You'll be far happier (I know from experience!).

    Alan

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    I haven't dug into it too much yet, but the manual says Dialog 2. As for the LinuxCNC, I'm a Linux Infrastrucure engineer for a day job and I still am not sure about it. I've looked at a bunch of the "retrofit" or "upgrade" packages and was wanting to play with a couple before moving forward with one. I'd really like to get the Dialog 2 up and running just to see how it feels compared to others I've used.

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    Yes, would be informative to know what control you have? Should be marked on the operators panel.Hand wheels can be supplied from after market suppliers like "Reid Supply" or directly from
    Frantz Singer in Germany....They will be less important as you get to understand the machine. Really not very useful. Heavy to operate especially on the "Z" axis, as you are not only moving the axis , but doing so through a mechanical drive through the servo motor....

    Heed Alan's advice....Big step for someone doing a "first" retro. Hopefully you have some prior experience.
    If they are all present you might strive to retain the original servo motors. They are well integrated and reputed to be "bullet proof".
    The original Bosch servo drive, especially the second generation work fine if your drive is complete...Finding missing cards would be costly.
    The gear shifting will be a challenge....A more modern approach using ,say, two or three gear ranges from the gear box and a spindle drive (VFD) to run the motor would be easier all around, but would require a higher cost.
    Good luck, hope you will keep us posted on your progress....

    Interesting that the vertical head assembly is painted brown, and be machine is green, suggests that the vert head came from another machine.....would want to verify that indeed you have everything needed to
    make the head work, and that in fact it fit your machine...Could be a game changer....
    Cheers Ross

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    Somewhat hard to see, but it looks like the servo on X is missing, as well as a card on the Bosch servo drive electronics.

    Usually the most worn/wrecked machines are stripped for parts, so before doing too much, better check if spindle and all axis run nicely.
    The ways on old deckels, especially on the smaller ones, have a bad habit of eating each other and galling up, bottom of X and backside of Z, opposite to control panel it's where it usually happens.

    If condition is too bad and too much missing, it's probably easier and cheaper to sell for parts. And use it to buy a less wrecked machine. At least that's what I have learned so far.

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    I have the servo, it had been pulled off. I also have some cards in boxes. One of the reasons I wanted the handles is to cycle it through the range of motion manually to see how that felt. I've contemplated a motor and VFD swap since it would solve a power issue for me as well. Like I said earlier this was supposed to be a parts machine. I got it pretty cheap. I can probably recoup my investment by selling off a bunch of the stuff I wouldn't be using.

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    And it is Dialog 2, I didn't see it on the control panel initially, the cards covered it.

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    Have you considered MachMotion as a control retrofit ?

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    I have. But they are just building on Mach 4. I am more likely if I did Mach 4 to source a breakout board and motion controller than to pay them to put it together. I would probably use Audiohms components to do that. I've also been looking at Centroid and a couple others.

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    I have messed around with mach3 quite allot converting 2 machines. I won’t do it again, it is just to messy/toy. If I do another conversion I will be using one of the stand-alone controllers.Attachment 291513
    No need for PC’s, BOB, motion controllers, mpg, control panel, monotors, mouse, keyboard, interface cards and all the add ons you seem to need with Mach.
    The all in ones seem to be a much simpler option and may even be cheaper in the end.

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    I've looked at a ton of stand alone controllers. I like the Centroid ok, but still not sure what what way I will go. I ordered some handles so I can can at least manually move the machine and get an idea of condition. And I also have a power supply to test the servos as well.

    And as far as Mach 3, well I won't use it. Mach 4 is so far more advanced, but I still don't think I can run something with a Windows computer, that just seems wrong to me.

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    I’m not sure that M4 is really that different for the user? I know that the software is 90% different but the overall user experience seems to be similar.
    Completely agree on windows, don’t mind the older ones like XP but all the latest ones seem more like a bloody virus! Just installed office on a new Mac, bloody annoying even just doing the instal. Forced in to creating online Microsoft accounts ect.

    The standalone controllers seem to offer allot of simplicity and I expect they will be cheaper in the end than using Mach if you are using new components.
    I very much doubt that they will deal with the spindle gear change, probably a plc will be needed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rodorama View Post
    I ordered some handles so I can can at least manually move the machine and get an idea of condition. And I also have a power supply to test the servos as well.

    .
    Be aware that the servos have internal brakes and all the hand wheels move the slides through the servos, so you will need to power the brakes in order to move anything by hand....
    Also should be noted that powering the brake (release) is polarity sensitive....(24v DC i believe) polarity wrong and the brake will be locked tight. Further the servos will require up to 250VDC to run.

    Cheers Ross

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    If you unplug the servos from Bosch amplifier, you should be able to run them with common power supplies.
    Brake needs 24V, as mentioned, servo motor is just a simple DC motor, it runs fine on like a 40V/5A power supply. 2 more screw connections are for tacho generator, has resistor in series, nothing too bad should happen, if connected wrongly.

    For details, there should be a wiring diagram below the connection cover on servo motor.

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    I'll add that if you plan on keeping existing servos, it would be worth it to get the original Bosch drive back in order if nothing major is missing (or damaged) from the drive (it's hard to tell in the pic, but 1 card might be missing from it), they are quite easy to diagnose and fix, and original tuning information is available also, and they are standard +/- 10V control input, most aftermarket motion controls will be able to handle it


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