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  1. #21
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    img_9748.jpg

    I got her sitting all the way on the floor now. She's not exactly square to the wall and it's triggering my OCD, lol.

    img_9753.jpg

    I stuck the spindle in just to see what it looks like in there too.

    img_9750.jpg

    The cheap machine skates I bought were worthless at even less than 10% of their rated load. So I returned them and made due with one of my regular dollies, Dolly Madison. She did not fair as well and will need some new shoes.

    img_9752.jpg

    I'm actually at the point where I can start working on it.


    I'm torn on wether to keep the existing servos which all have Siemens tags on them.
    I will test them and see how they are though.
    At this point I doubt I will try and get any of the "stock" controls working.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails img_9741.jpg  

  2. #22
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    I very much appreciate all the advice so far. It is very helpful.

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    Spent a little time today just going over the machine and familiarizing myself with what was where. Traced some wires back and am getting ready to set thing up for testing the motors and lubrication system. Lots of small fasteners and little things seem to be missing. So starting to make a list of parts to order.

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    I would wait for a second machine,I have two fp4nc's both with 3m control. I was able to purchase both for a little more than the price of the move. A non runner does not have much value as a complete unit. The parts on the other hand will kill your budget in quick order.

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    Regarding skates... I built some years ago and I've always been happy with them. They are just 4 x 4 x 1/4 plates with 1/2 x 1/2 bars on the bottom. Those bars carry two 1/4 axles, upon which I've got 8 ball bearings. The nice thing is that the pad is only about 7/8" tall, so even if they slide out, there isn't a lot of distance for the machine to get off kilter. You *do* want to put a rubber between them and the machine, though, which keeps positive adhesion.

    Centroid also makes a cheap-o board (Acorn) that might work for you. Centroid has a reputation for up-charging you for features, though, which some don't like. Still, I've heard that you can spin together something pretty quickly. You might want to look into that. One area that I think you will run into problems, however, is what I talked about before... gear changing. That has a lot of microswitches and jockeying back and forth to get the gears to drop in. I doubt you will be able to do that with pure Acorn capabilities.... HOWEVER, I see no reason why you couldn't take an Arduino (or similar) setup and build a gear change uController that managed *just* that operation. You might then be able to build a simple PLC ladder inside the Acorn that would deal with the delay, etc.

    Alan

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    Be very careful lifting a machine high and pushing it around... If those wheels broke (and they obviously did), you can easily tip the machine off the platform. On a good day, it will crash onto the ground and become unrepairable. A less good day would be into your car and your wife reads you the riot act. A really bad day is when you see it tipping and you try to 'save' it. Then your wife just gets the life insurance payout (as in... life insurance). That is a bad day for you (and hopefully your wife)!

    The single best way to avoid accidents like that is to minimize (hopefully eliminate) the potential for them in the first place... Keeping your machine as low as possible, IMHO, is one measure of doing just that.

    Alan

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    Quote Originally Posted by wrench View Post
    Regarding skates... I built some years ago and I've always been happy with them. They are just 4 x 4 x 1/4 plates with 1/2 x 1/2 bars on the bottom. Those bars carry two 1/4 axles, upon which I've got 8 ball bearings.
    Photo please?

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    Quote Originally Posted by legoboy View Post
    I would wait for a second machine,I have two fp4nc's both with 3m control. I was able to purchase both for a little more than the price of the move. A non runner does not have much value as a complete unit. The parts on the other hand will kill your budget in quick order.
    Since I can't seem to find another at this time I'm just going to do what I'm going to do with this one. So far I haven't needed any parts that are that bad. And I'm going to sell off a bunch from this one. I know pretty much all the stock control stuff will go. Debating some other parts, servos and spindle motor.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wrench View Post
    Regarding skates...

    Centroid also makes a cheap-o board (Acorn) that might work for you.
    Skates. I'm looking for some decent ones, or maybe I'll make some. For now the need is gone. Well until I replace the lathe I just sold. lol.

    I've been looking at the Centroid stuff a bunch. I'd probably go Oak before Acorn though. The price is still not too bad. But I am researching linuxcnc a bunch as well. I do linux for a day job so I've got that going for me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wrench View Post
    One area that I think you will run into problems, however, is what I talked about before... gear changing. That has a lot of microswitches and jockeying back and forth to get the gears to drop in. I doubt you will be able to do that with pure Acorn capabilities.... HOWEVER, I see no reason why you couldn't take an Arduino (or similar) setup and build a gear change uController that managed *just* that operation. You might then be able to build a simple PLC ladder inside the Acorn that would deal with the delay, etc.
    This is on the list of issues that I am looking at. Trying to build a plan for it, it's also where linuxcnc seems to be a better choice.

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    Alan's point is well taken about height when moving a machine....
    I have done my share of moving of machines. Once lifted and moved an 80 ton steam locomotive out of a pit...
    Best thing i ever did as to moving machinery was to purchase a set of the "Jung" JLB 3K skates.

    JUNG Products // Transport trolleys Series K


    While mot what you would call low,the make moving heavy machinery almost a pleasure.....They have urethane rollers so they won't mar your floor. Ball bearing thrust plate on the
    steerable set make maneuvering easy. The trick is to only use three skates, Even on uneven surfaces the three set will not drop one skate when moving.
    Have used these for years, was well worth the investment. Used them on my driveway , and on and off drop deck and tilt trailers ....Coupled with a toe jack moving a lathe or mill is pretty straight up.

    Cheers Ross

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    Ditto what Ross wrote (and he's a pretty sharp fella).

    I'm not a millwright by any stretch, but I've been moving machinery for 40+ yrs, and have seen some pretty awful consequences. Now having said that, having had and expecting skates to come out from under machines or grenade a roller; I've have not had issues.

    My personal skates are 1-3/4"from floor to top plate and there is ALWAYS 2" x 4" dunnage under the machines as "catches". Anytime a machine is perched on steel( trailer deck, lift truck tyne, etc) there will be softwood "stickers" twixt the two metal surfaces. In the case of the skates part of that 1-3/4" travel height is 1/4" plywood stickers.

    Always presume the machine is going to come over..... plan accordingly.

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    Here are the photos (sorry, I'm juggling one day job that has three components right now... very confusing!). These are *not* especially elegant. And they will leave unsightly (albeit temporary) marks on concrete. But, they are dirt cheap, only 7/8" tall, and even if they had a catastrophic failure, they would barely drop. You are best putting a rubber top on them (doesn't have to be thick).

    The race is there so that I can put a table on top. I made this too, but frankly, I have never used the table top. I can turn a machine very easily just by nudging. All my machines are 4500lbs or lighter though.

    I've thought about putting roller skate wheels on the setup. This has one disadvantage in that I'm not too sure how strong they'd be, and that would also add a lot of height. A nicer solution might be to find some high density "tires" and to then build up the top a bit to adjust for the extra diameter. BTW, this brings up my one design flaw I made... The top is almost perfectly flush with the top of the wheels. I should have left the wheels a bit lower (even a 1/16th of an inch). *IF* I don't use a rubber mat (not recommended, because the machine slips easily), then I'll almost certainly crack a bearing. They do not tolerate *any* compression at all. Zero, zilch, nada... Fortunately, the bearings are dirt cheap.

    I almost lost (actually a pretty nice) FP1 off the back of a liftgate truck. I learned three things that day... First, be really careful with liftgate trucks and avoid them if possible. You can't control their descent speed and when you release the switch, the valve closes immediately. This starts the old bounce, bounce, bounce... Perfect for moving metal on metal. Scariest !%[email protected]#$ I'd seen in a long time. The second thing I learned (confirmed, really) was: have the help you need, tell everyone else to go home! I was smart... nobody was near when that liftgate bounced. If the mill had gone off the back, the worst thing that would have happened was my pride being dashed; I could live with that (all puns intended). The last thing I confirmed was obvious too... Always plan ahead and prepare for the worst. Keeping people away is part of that. A safety line that is tied off (which I didn't have) may well be another (but not where it can garrote or injure a person).

    Everything worked out, but I did have to thank my lucky stars... well, not really. I was stupid, but I was also smart. Nobody would have been hurt, at least not at first. I'm sure my wife would have ripped me a new one! She's Italian, which means she can flash over like Mt. Vesuvius :-) All in all, that day was one of the better life experiences.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails img_2883.jpg   img_2882.jpg  

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  18. #34
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    Regarding linuxCNC and gear changing...

    I'm kind of like you. I'm an electrical engineer by training, software engineer by need and that is where I live right now.... That said, I think I'd still prefer to use a uController for the gear changing. I (personally) think it is probably a better choice to just offload that than to mess with dealing with creating a ladder for it in LinuxCNC land. Can you do a ladder? Absolutely. But, plumbing all that stuff together is a pain. But this is just personal preference.

    Alan

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    Quote Originally Posted by wrench View Post
    These are *not* especially elegant.
    Thanks for posting the photos. Is it right that the axles are only 1/4" (6.35mm) diameter? I would have thought they would not take so much load.

    I almost lost (actually a pretty nice) FP1 off the back of a liftgate truck.
    Same thing happened with my FP2. The kid operating the liftgate was brand-spanking-new and did not know how the controls worked! He almost tilted the mill right off the end.

    The second thing I learned (confirmed, really) was: have the help you need, tell everyone else to go home!
    Ross has persuaded me that it's often better to do these things entirely alone. Human muscle power is not needed, and is useless if a multi-ton machine starts an unintended move. Better to have no distractions, and to be forced to plan in such a way that you must be able to do all steps with only your own two hands.

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  21. #36
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    Doubt that the duplex bearings really do much if their axle is indeed 1/4" looks like a lot of flex possible there.
    Had a pro rigger move a series 2 Bridgeport for me some years back...he had some skates similar to what Alan shows...from memory they were simple blocks of steel, perhaps 2x4 and maybe 5/8" thick.
    Had 2 simple axles welded across the underside of the plate , just stuck to the plate extending just past the edge on each side...had single ball bearings on the end of each axle (4) retained by a blob of weld on the inner race.
    Size of the bearings (6204? )left the top of the plate above the upper of the bearing....Couldn't be simpler...according to the rigger, when they got sketchy or damaged, they just made more
    Somewhere i have some photos , not sure i can find them now.....

    Yea, stay away from those lift gates...the only ones that are any good are the type that the car carrying semi trailers have , where the outer end of the gate is supported by chains to the upper portion of the lift setup, otherwise
    none of then are worth the effort and are decidedly dangerous....

    Here is the result of using a lift gate to move an FP3NC ....Gate was said to be rated past the weight of the machine...one of the hinge pins failed when the the lift was going up and the machine toppled.
    This happened before my ownership of the machine...good lesson here however.Most of the damage to the machine was done by the tow truck operator trying to right the wreck as was from the initial fall....Machine looks decidedly better now!



    Cheers Ross

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    You are probably right about the double bearings, Ross. These were put together quickly and without any "proofing" either on paper or afterwards... What I can tell you, however, is that by the time you start dividing out the number of wheels (ignore the doubling) and pads, each wheel doesn't really have that much weight for the machines we are talking about. Moving a 600 ton die casting machine? No way! But, a 4600 pound CNC and you can push it along with one person.

    The reason I wasn't really worried about 'design' per se on these is simple. Even under a catastrophic failure where the axle shears off, the whole thing cant drop more than about 3/16 of an inch or so. It just isn't that much. I like that about the design. For as simple as they are, they've *really* exceeded my expectations. Plus, they were cheap to make. BUT, they definitely have their limitations too.

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  24. #38
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    I am parting out an FP2NC and have no use for a lot of the FP2 specific Stuff.
    I bought it for the drives and boards. When you get your shopping list together.Let me know.
    I was able to test all functions to reach the agreed price. After driving it across 2 states It has an Estop string issue.
    Dave

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  26. #39
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    Will do thanks. Just got my knee replaced about 10 days ago and ended up with a fractured tibia out of the deal so I'm not working on it right now, I am sure reading a lot though and doing research.


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