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No way a 1980's Deckel FP2NC vertical head would fit on a 1960's FP2 is there ?
- Thread starter Milacron
- Start date
- Replies 20
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Sean S
Titanium
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- Dec 20, 2000
- Location
- Coos Bay, OR
IIRC the dovetails would be the same.
IIRC#2 I think the FP2NC allows the mounting of FP1 heads, but this is accomplished by pushing the regular head *backwwards* meaning it's gears engage when you pull it *forwards*.
The manual head's gears engage pushing *backwards*.
I think this will be your issue.
Sean S
Titanium
- Joined
- Dec 20, 2000
- Location
- Coos Bay, OR
I guess what I'm saying Don is that the FP2NC head isn't meant to be removed/swapped and as far as I remember isn't driven by the same gear as the provided for "attachment" heads, therefor no interchangeability is designed into it AFAIK.
I could be wrong... been awhile.
I could be wrong... been awhile.
wrench
Titanium
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- Jul 9, 2002
- Location
- Sunnyvale, CA
I would think that you couldn't ever use FP1 equipment on anything other than an FP1 due to the much discussed gear pitch issue. That would be an absolute restriction.
As far as not being able to install heads other than the original NC vertical.... I have no basis for saying one way or the other, but it feels like this would be a restriction that would have weakened the conceptual flexibility of the machine. For instance, why shouldn't you be able to attach a shaping head or grinding head? And a long reach might have some use too... It just feels like Deckel would have wanted to preserve the feature, especially because it would be so easy to do so. But, maybe I'm wrong....
Alan
As far as not being able to install heads other than the original NC vertical.... I have no basis for saying one way or the other, but it feels like this would be a restriction that would have weakened the conceptual flexibility of the machine. For instance, why shouldn't you be able to attach a shaping head or grinding head? And a long reach might have some use too... It just feels like Deckel would have wanted to preserve the feature, especially because it would be so easy to do so. But, maybe I'm wrong....
Alan
mTeryk
Hot Rolled
- Joined
- Jul 4, 2010
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- corvallis,or
Not to jack this thread but I'm going to take my fp2 riser block and precision boring head over to a friend's and try it out on his FP2NC. Sounds like we won't have to remove his head, just slide it back and put the riser on from the front.
Is that the case? It will simplify matters if it is.
Teryk
Is that the case? It will simplify matters if it is.
Teryk
AlfaGTA
Diamond
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- Dec 13, 2002
- Location
- Benicia California USA
Have done all this....used the Slotter , the riser and the precision boring head all on my FP4NC...works fine....
Now the dovetail is not the issue,(works fine) but the drive for the CNC head might be..never tried to run the NC vertical head on the manual machine. AFAIK the drive gear is a different gear from the
one that is there to drive the accessories....So that might not be a match......To expand on this...Think the manual machines use the same gear to drive either the vertical head when mounted, and any of
the machine driven accessories...The CNC's have a different setup....they have two gears at the front end...The forward one is there to be able to run the older accessories... behind that is a second gear (different size i believe)
that powers the take off for the vertical head.... Pretty sure that gear in the "Y" slide is larger than the one that powers the accessories (70 t on the head drive)..so the mating gear in the vertical head would need to be smaller than the one on its manual
brother....
One further note...as to accessories,believe the FP2NC only can use the FP1 accessories (14 1/2* pa. gearing) Furthers my argument that the equivalent CNC machine to the FP1 was the FP2NC....
Cheers Ross
Now the dovetail is not the issue,(works fine) but the drive for the CNC head might be..never tried to run the NC vertical head on the manual machine. AFAIK the drive gear is a different gear from the
one that is there to drive the accessories....So that might not be a match......To expand on this...Think the manual machines use the same gear to drive either the vertical head when mounted, and any of
the machine driven accessories...The CNC's have a different setup....they have two gears at the front end...The forward one is there to be able to run the older accessories... behind that is a second gear (different size i believe)
that powers the take off for the vertical head.... Pretty sure that gear in the "Y" slide is larger than the one that powers the accessories (70 t on the head drive)..so the mating gear in the vertical head would need to be smaller than the one on its manual
brother....
One further note...as to accessories,believe the FP2NC only can use the FP1 accessories (14 1/2* pa. gearing) Furthers my argument that the equivalent CNC machine to the FP1 was the FP2NC....
Cheers Ross
AlfaGTA
Diamond
- Joined
- Dec 13, 2002
- Location
- Benicia California USA
The riser will fit..but beware the accessory drive on the FP2NC is made to run the FP1 accessories....(see my other post)
The riser will fit and can be driven (perhaps) but it will clatter and sound like its destroying itself...Save your effort..been there done that....
Cheers Ross
Sean S
Titanium
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- Dec 20, 2000
- Location
- Coos Bay, OR
I must have been gone for that argument, but I would agree.
It does make you wonder if Deckel ever had a FP1NC on the drawing table.
Sean S
Titanium
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- Dec 20, 2000
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- Coos Bay, OR
The NC heads are too heavy and large to remove even without the hydraulic issues.
The NC's used what Ross describes (better than I did) as an accessory (or attachment) drive gear, by which the attachment heads can be driven while the NC head "rides along".
The way you mount the jig grinding and jig boring head to the FP2NC is exactly the way you mount it to an FP1... using the rather rare FP1 riser.
Now don't quote me... it has been eons since I played with arrangements on an FP2NC so everything for me is "IIRC"
mTeryk
Hot Rolled
- Joined
- Jul 4, 2010
- Location
- corvallis,or
To re visit and clarify this issue..... I have a 1960's Deckel FP2 with no vertical head. But I do have a 1980's (Dialog 2) FP2NC parts machine and an FP1 vertical head (with the geared ram attached to it of course) Bottom line is neither of these will work on that 1960's FP2 as a vertical head.....right ?
Peter from Holland
Diamond
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- Jan 15, 2005
- Location
- The Netherlands
I have some long arm vertical heads for a FP2
Peter from holland
Peter from holland
bsg
Titanium
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- Jan 17, 2003
- Location
- Imlay City, Michigan
Different gear pitch, hence the stupid expensive adapter to fit the FP2 heads to an FP1.......the FP2NC IIRC uses the FP1 accessories and not the FP2, I'm sure someone else will chime in on the NC interchangeability.
Kevin
They will engage but sure you'll know something's wrong as soon as you turn the machine on.... THE NOISE !!!!!!!!
Interesting.... did you get my email earlier today ?
OK, was afraid of that. Re the FP2NC head swap...I just now took my first serious look at that possibility, and that idea is out even if the gears engaged ok (and even if I was willing to rig up a separate hydraulic unit to operate the drawbar) The unexpected reason is not the dovetail size but the total width of the ram is such that it would not clear the dial or handwheel of the horizontal quill. Also it would look ridiculous.
Peter from Holland
Diamond
- Joined
- Jan 15, 2005
- Location
- The Netherlands
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