Oerlikon Italiana Milling Machine size "3", Model MN3H
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    Default Oerlikon Italiana Milling Machine size "3", Model MN3H

    Not sure if this is the correct forum section, but it is the only I see for Euro type mills. This is a continuation of a a conversation started under the Cincinnati, K & T, USA machines forum section where we were discussing milling machine comparisons here:

    http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb...1/#post3119491

    As the likelihood is high that I'll be dragging this machine home, I'd thought I'd start a new thread to expand the topic on this machine, and hopefully get some feed back.

    This Oerlikon is located near to me. I went to see it first hand today. I have worked out a very reasonable price, should I decide to buy it. My time was limited today. I had about an hour. I looked it over the best I could, and got as much information as possible.

    I only had an hour. . . I really could have used the whole day. The owner offered to let me power it up, and operate it. I declined for now, because the machine has not been operated in years. Someone coated ways with grease years ago. I didn't want to drag dirt and debris into it without cleaning first. Also I'd want to change the fluids before operating. Anyway, I'll lay out what pics and info I have so far.

    1.jpg2.jpg4.jpg8.jpg5.jpg

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    This machine was built in 1969. There were apparently three vaiations of size "3", The last character of model number indicating which H,V, or U. This is model MN3H, The "H" of model number will show specifications to the left column of chart in three of the pics below.

    ISO 50 taper, a fat work surface of 63" x 14 1/4", 15hp main motor and a 3hp feed motor. weight at 8300 lbs, and the whole list of specs.

    15.jpg16.jpg17.jpg18.jpg19.jpg

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    Looking at the table it is in pretty decent shape. It does have some spots where tooling penetrated work, but not horrendous.

    20.jpg6.jpg7.jpg

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    It looks like American standard measure on vertical head quill, also there is something like a steel inch ruler for a rough crossfeed measure, sorry no pic of that. More pics:

    9.jpg10.jpg11.jpg21.jpg22.jpg

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    A few more:

    25.jpg24.jpg26.jpg27.jpg23.jpg

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    Looking forward to more!

    Spindle goods to confirm 50 taper, or?

    Motor dataplates to help grok total power needs?

    Weight for planning the move?
    Not an ounce less than 6,000 lbs. Avoir, IMNSHO - perhaps a good deal more.

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    I am mildly concerned about the HP rating. I was really looking to stay about 5hp. 10 I'm ok with, but prefer to stay under. The spec sheet calls it 15hp. The motor itself is rated in KW, at 10kw. Which I'm thinking should put it at about 13.4hp.

    Also the motor shows 50hz, and different voltage. So I'm guessing a transformer of sorts to use 220/440vac at 60hz is installed as part of machine. Plus a 3 hp feed motor, and a 1/6hp coolant motor.

    The wiring to my building can handle about 70-80amps, though Im using a 60amp main breaker, single phase with two hot leads. I use a 7.5 rotary phase converter easy now. I'm toying with the idea of a 20hp rotary, or maybe reduce the motor hp size from 15 to 10 or 7.5, and use a 15hp rotary converter. Just rolling ideas around right now, but I doubt I'll personally see close to the full work load of 15hp.

    12.jpg14.jpg13.jpg

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    Some pics of ways, dovetails and such. The good news is all the meat is there, I dont see any wear trenches, and in fact I see a spiral machining marks. Also someone had the presence of mind to coat it in grease some years ago.

    The bad news, though not too terrible, is there are some water/condensation marks and mild pitting in some places. Again, I only had an hour so not a full inspection. In fact I didn't get to check longitude/traverse ways. There is quite a bit of dis-colorization on metal from the grease as well.

    1st pic dovetail for overarm.

    2nd and 3rd are crossfeed right rear side of table.

    4th pic I believe is left side rear of table, crossfeed.

    31.jpg30.jpg33.jpg34.jpg

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    Front side of table, crossfeed ways.

    36.jpg37.jpg38.jpg39.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by texasgunsmith View Post
    I am mildly concerned about the HP rating. I was really looking to stay about 5hp. 10 I'm ok with, but prefer to stay under. The spec sheet calls it 15hp. The motor itself is rated in KW, at 10kw. Which I'm thinking should put it at about 13.4hp.

    Also the motor shows 50hz, and different voltage. So I'm guessing a transformer of sorts to use 220/440vac at 60hz is installed as part of machine. Plus a 3 hp feed motor, and a 1/6hp coolant motor.

    The wiring to my building can handle about 70-80amps, though Im using a 60amp main breaker, single phase with two hot leads. I use a 7.5 rotary phase converter easy now. I'm toying with the idea of a 20hp rotary, or maybe reduce the motor hp size from 15 to 10 or 7.5, and use a 15hp rotary converter. Just rolling ideas around right now, but I doubt I'll personally see close to the full work load of 15hp.

    12.jpg14.jpg13.jpg
    If you are not used to it? And then DO approach 15 HP loading?

    Might want to be wearing an elder diaper that shift!



    Brass tacks:

    You will still have to START a 15 HP motor's inrush load. Prepping for that is easier than swapping the motor. I would take my existing 10 HP RPC, itself a powerline hit when started, then with no change to its Phase-Craft controls, switch another 10 HP idler onto its output once up to speed. As-in near-as-dammit right away.

    IF the now 20 HP idler equivalent still struggled? I'd add a 5 HP, call it JFDWT, and live with a bit of nuisance rather than put any more rude THD back up the line, or any more money into a short-term-only challenge..

    CAVEAT: Easy for me to say. My 200A entrance panel is IN the shop.

    Once ready to operate, let experience show you if you still need to have the supplementary idler(s) in the circuit for vanilla running. Odds are 6 HP or less will be a hard-enough work rate.

    She's going to be loafing at most things, real-world, at less-yet, so you can defer upgrading the feed from YOUR entrance panel until you've tripped a Slo-Blow breaker a few times too many. Might never even happen. Time will tell.

    Confirm you have a 50 taper. If so, seek a few 50 to 40 adapters. Stacking error is modest. Ability to use toolholders that are more common, less expensive, and are easier to LIFT is a plus.

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    Vertical ways, heavy dis-colorization from grease. And I didn't have time to clean it further.

    32.jpg35.jpg

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    Tooling I will get with it. I did try to thread gauge quickly, but M24-3 of iso 50 (I think its 3, and not 2) is pretty close to 1"-8tpi of nmtb 50 in poor light, lol.

    Also I really wanted to yank vertical head, and pop the drive gear out of taper, but I really needed to get to a job.

    The owner is not a machinist, though a hell of a nice guy. But he could not tell me much about the machine or tooling.

    There are two arbor supports. One is bare, no bushing or locking bolt assembly. He does have the book I showed a few spec pics from. I'm thinking its 50 to 75 pages. Some operation, a little service and parts. Not too overly detailed, but a decent starting point.

    That's all I got for now.

    3.jpg28.jpg29.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by texasgunsmith View Post
    Tooling I will get with it. I did try to thread gauge quickly, but M24-3 of iso 50 (I think its 3, and not 2) is pretty close to 1"-8tpi of nmtb 50 in poor light, lol.

    Also I really wanted to yank vertical head, and pop the drive gear out of taper, but I really needed to get to a job.

    The owner is not a machinist, though a hell of a nice guy. But he could not tell me much about the machine or tooling.

    There are two arbor supports. One is bare, no bushing or locking bolt assembly. He does have the book I showed a few spec pics from. I'm thinking its 50 to 75 pages. Some operation, a little service and parts. Not too overly detailed, but a decent starting point.

    That's all I got for now.

    3.jpg28.jpg29.jpg
    It is the AFT end - back under the bench - of those arbours we need to see. Check the drawbar threads.

    The zoo on the wall looks to include two different NMTB tapers, plus two in Morse, maybe even B&S or Jarno, both less likely. There is probably an adapter or two already there.

    Also one, if not two, Quick-Change items, so you may have a master chuck or adapter there as well.

    If the PO is a mill-hand, there is more, somewhere, ELSE not. Does look more like an accidental assortment than a deliberate one, but beats a poke in the ear with a pencil, so don't abandon it.

    Nap time. Need my ugly sleep.

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    Quote Originally Posted by texasgunsmith View Post
    Vertical ways, heavy dis-colorization from grease. And I didn't have time to clean it further.

    32.jpg35.jpg
    Rust UNDER the grease, more likely.

    When you get it to home, slather with "Goop" hand cleaner, then go at it with a soft shoe polish dauber. That'll get the mess reduced, the sludge won't be terrible to police-up, won't harm adjacent paint, nor get the corrosive Purple-power lye into the ways and gibs and such. In due course, you'll want brass/bronze wire brushes, not steel as well. Brake cleaner, not. "Goof off" only maybe. PBlaster probably, but later, and with care.

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    Well texas, looks like you may have a real nice “ barn find” there!
    I don’t have any machine specific knowledge, but as I think you know, this baby is going to absorb some SERIOUS time to get back in shape.

    Difference is, unlike some rusted solid, crapped out BP, it looks like it’s “worth it”, but just dive in knowing how deep it is in there.

    Another way to look at it is.. well.. this is the reason I NEED to get a bigger shop with decent 3phase and an overhead gantry!

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    A machine a Texan worthy

    Peter

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    That looks like a great machine. The ways should clean up nicely, there's just so much machine there to clean! Is the vertical spindle 50 taper? It's unusual to see a quill on something that big.

    I once ran a 7.5 HP lathe on a 3 hp roto phase for a while. The only difficulty I had was starting the spindle above 800 rpm, the load and the length of time it took to accelerate the chuck would kick out the machine overload. Ran it in lower gears until I could install a second 3hp roto phase in parallel.

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    Thats a lot of milling machine. Yout title is Texasgunsmith do you plan on making gun parts on this machine?

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    Quote Originally Posted by SIP6A View Post
    Thats a lot of milling machine. Yout title is Texasgunsmith do you plan on making gun parts on this machine?
    Paperwork required, but surely.

    Single-action First Dragoon wheel gun pattern. Chambered for 40 mm Oerlikon.

    Some rattlers and such jest git too big for a .44



    It's Texas!

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    I hope you get it! I saw that machine on CL last month, looked like a decent machine and decent price, but pretty sure its a tad too big to get thru doorway of my new shop.


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