OT- Got literature on 1998 vintage RSF glass scales ? Need signal type info
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    Default OT- Got literature on 1998 vintage RSF glass scales ? Need signal type info

    and pin outs would be nice. Scale model is MSA6701.... other info on the reader head data plate that may or may not be revelant.... spec 899A, K10, Int 20um, RI code 02U +5V. This on an Austrian made tool presetter (KPT Diaset D350) where the original control panel has crapped out. Would be nice to just bypass it and have a newer model Acu-Rite or Heidenhain display.

    FWIW, Current plugs are standard D sub 9 which is what newer Acu-Rite use but when connected to an Acu-Rite 200S get no signal.

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    According to Franz Singer's web page, your RSF scale is a pin-compatible replacement for a Heidenhain LS403 scale:
    Massstab MSA6701, 470 mm im Austausch von RSF

    The LS403 is an 11 uA sinusoidal 9-pin scale. So you should get hold of an old-fashioned Heidenhain scale and a DB9->9 pin round converter for testing.

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    Need a photo of the nameplate data off the scale- not the reader head- to determine a few particulars.
    Have some RSF scales here, the pinouts on the same style connector as Heidenhain are usually not the same.
    Have to pay close attention with RSF as they make a lot of variations- pretty much every conceivable output format- square wave TTL or sine, voltage and current domain, various resolutions. Not a good idea to just plug them into something that the plug fits.

    Could be mistaken but it's possible that scale linked at Singer was specifically modified (likely just via the correct wiring of the correct connector) to be a Heidenhain compatible replacement.

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    The latest on this mystery is that the RSF scales are 1Vpp (according the plate on the scale rather than the head)...but have the wire colors and connector (D sub 9) of a TTL scale. And then there's the cute thought that even if by some chance I find an RSF 9 pin D Sub 1Vpp pin out diagram, that the manufacturer of this tool presetter might have chosen yet different wire combinations to connect to their special control panel !

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    Finally found some relevant literature that shows the MSA 6701 scale.. ..https://www.mavin.com/pdf/RSF_encoder.PDF.... but what are "sinusoidal micro-current signals" ? Same as 11uApp ? (also what is the difference in 1Vss and 1Vpp ?)

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    Basically and very generally speaking, Heidenhain and RSF have 4 different signal transmission formats:
    1- Single ended TTL (square wave)
    2- Differential TTL 5 Volt
    3- Differential sinewave, current domain. 11uA is the most common since about mid 1980s, but there is an older version also
    4- Differential sinewave, voltage domain. 1Vpp or 1Vss (same thing just English vs German wording)

    There are others, including EnDat. There are close ties between RSF and Heidenhain that go way back, pretty sure Heidenhain owns RSF now (as well as Acu-rite and parts of the former Grundig, among others).

    11uApp means 11 micro Amps Peak to Peak.

    Generally speaking, RSF is similar signals but not always the same as Heidenhain and almost never the same wiring conventions/connectors/pinouts. RSF offers more variety in output connectors compared to Heidenhain, which are pretty standardized for a given signal format. On top of that there are specials and/or stuff gets customized by another OEM or end user for particular applications.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Milacron View Post
    What are "sinusoidal micro-current signals" ? Same as 11uApp ?
    Yes, they are the same. See the last page of the spec linked in post #5. It reads as below. This is effectively the same as the Heidenhain 11 microamp spec.

    Microcurrent Sine Wave
    7-16mA (11.5 mA typical) with
    1 k ohm resistor for A & B
    channels 2-8mA 5mA (typical)
    with 1 k ohm resistor for Reference

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    Quote Originally Posted by Milacron View Post
    Finally found some relevant literature that shows the MSA 6701 scale.. ..https://www.mavin.com/pdf/RSF_encoder.PDF
    Ah.., success ! By ignoring Heidenhains wire color code and paying attention to the RFS colors and function associated with each, I soldered the wires to the pins a Heidenhain Dsub 15 wants to use and now the antique KPT presenter is displaying on a nice ND780 DRO .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Milacron View Post
    Ah.., success ! <SNIP> now the antique KPT presenter is displaying on a nice ND780 DRO .
    Well done! Please could you spend a minute and post a table showing which pins of the DB15 were connected to which of the RSF colors? That will help the next person with this question.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ballen View Post
    Well done! Please could you spend a minute and post a table showing which pins of the DB15 were connected to which of the RSF colors? That will help the next person with this question.
    Sure...

    For RSF 6700 series scales 1Vpp* or 11uApp with "uhf" cable (orange wire rather than pink). To use with Heidenhain DRO with 15 pin D Sub connector the RSF wire arrangement is as follows...

    1 Black
    2 Brown
    3 Green
    4 Yellow
    5 /
    6 Orange
    7 Red
    8 /
    9 /
    10 Violet
    11 /
    12 Blue
    13 Internal shield*
    14 /
    15 /

    img_3914.jpg img_3913-1.jpg

    *1 Vpp seems to need no internal shield wire

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    Here’s the latest ... now are you wondering how I’m using a TTL based DRO with 11uApp scales ?

    img_3968.jpg

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    hidden translation box?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by ballen View Post
    hidden translation box?
    Somehow Meridian stuffed all the necessary translator electronics in 15 pin to 9 pin adapters. These adaptors were inspired by the fact that the new Heidenhain DRO's cost $2,000....so they came up with a way to use Heidenhain scales (1Vpp and 11uApp) with the new Acu-Rite DRO's that sell as low as $675.

    img_3972.jpg

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    Nice! Could you please post a closeup of the label on the converter. Might be useful in the future for someone!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Milacron View Post
    .so they came up with a way to use Heidenhain scales (1Vpp and 11uApp) with the new Acu-Rite DRO's that sell as low as $675.
    So how do you enter any values in that DRO?
    Cheers Ross

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    Quote Originally Posted by AlfaGTA View Post
    So how do you enter any values in that DRO?
    Parameters are entered in setup mode by scrolling thru preprogrammed entries. As to measurement values, for this (presetter) purpose, the only offset needed is to home X zero. It is 1.750" from the edge of the tool pot OD to tool center....so the procedure is to zero the indicator at that edge, move X 1.750", re-zero, then press diameter button and good to go. Z is zeroed on the face of the tool pot.

    Having said that, not having used a tool presetter much, there may be some desirable functions beyond cataloging tool length and diameter (also handy for checking concentricity of tools) where value entries via keyboard is desirable.... if so, let me know what they are and I'll switch this puppy back to the ND780 and use this new Acu-Rite on my little Schaublin 102N-VM lathe !

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    Default MERIDIAN Signal Adapters

    Yes, the MERIDIAN adapters pictured are items we began offering this year with the new Acu-Rite readouts. So if you have older or newer HEIDENHAIN or RSF scales/encoders, you can now use Acu-Rite readouts. The MERIDIAN signal adapters shown are converting 11µApp signals to the TTL signal Acu-Rite requires, starting at $130.00 each. Check out more info at Acu-Rite DRO203 With MERIDIAN Signal Adapter

    sa-1xxx-simple.jpg


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