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problem with FP2NC control

jpevner

Stainless
Joined
Apr 5, 2005
Location
Central MA
Folk;

It ssems there is more activity for NC deckels on this board, so I am posting this here.

I cannot turn on the CNC section of the deckel. Occasionally I get a FP2 error low voltage at the PC.

I have replaced the six pack battery in the base of the CNC, and substituted a power supply for the SAFT memoguard in the CNC.

The +24 voltage lights on the PC are incorrect. The controller card has all voltages, but three of the yellow leds are not lit. I have traced this to the front side of the cabinet where the relays that control them are.

The lights on the Bosch cards are also not correct. None of the green lights on the axis cards are on, and the green light on the "power pack" is also not on. two red leds are lit on the power pack.

Any thoughts/ideas?

regards,

Jon P.
 
Ok, start with the basics:
1- There are 3 batteries--the "6 pack" you found in the operators console, then there is a battery on the NSP55 (SAFT 40RF310) board and one on the NSV80 or NSV90 board (SAFT 40RF304). In my experience good, charged batteries make a difference in the function of the control, it certainly does'nt hurt anything.
2- Turn off/unplug the machine, then carefully remove each board in the operators console (one at a time) and re-seat the eproms/re-seat the board in its slot in the operators console. Check wires and connectors to make sure none have gone bad over time (cracks, shorts, tears etc). There are instructions for this on the forum, make sure you are grounded and re-seat gently.
3- Do the same thing with the boards in the big cabinet
4- Check your cable harnesses that connect the machine to the large cabinet and to the operators console --any cracks or bad wires?
5- Check your voltages at the transformer in the big cabinet--are they correct?
6-Re-initialize the control (instructions courtesy of AlfaGTA)

Reload software:
Open up operators control cabinet.
Power up machine and control as normal.
Pull wire tape jumper K10 (runs across the top of 4 boards)
Pull power plug from power supply board (green plug at the top of the NSV board)
Reinstall K10 on all 4 boards
Reconnect power plug to the NSV board
Select mode 16 and power up control and re initilize.....
Note this process will kill all programs in memory sup routens, macros and peramiters...You will also have to reset the machine to inches if desired

Let's see if that gets you some traction...
 
I've taken care of the battery stuff. I will reseat boards tomorrow.

Talked to DD a bit, and traced back the chain from the K7 relay. When I press the on button, I heat a kerchunk, then another a second later, then I can't try again for about 5 sec. This seems to be caused by the relay on the NSV80 kicking out. Looking at the schematic, it seems there are a lot of possible causes for that, and I may have to solder on a few wires to bring out to an o-scope to start tracking that down.


thanks for all advice, and regards,

Jon P.
 
Don't overlook the aux contacts on the relays....
Most of the relays have aux contacts that are used for low voltage logic. They are used as a way for the control to know if a relay has pulled in or not. I have had bad aux. contacts that will cause start up problems even though the relay was picking up....
Cheers Ross
 
Well, I've done a lot of the "shotgunning" by reseating boards, and pressing down on socketed chips, but it didn't seem to help.

Alfa;
I am not sure which aux contacts you suggest I check. There are a lot of them.


I decided against soldering wires to the nsv80 just yet. I will see a friend next week that still has dip-clips, the little socketed wires that fit on them, and kapton tape, and all the goodies needed to debug leaded components. I think I will just see if I can trace back to see which wire is causing the relay to drop out. I don't seem to be missing any voltages, or have any of the error lights go on on the NSV80, so it is a bit of a mystery.

I am starting to wonder if a Mach/EMC conversion is in my future? I question how long the electronics can be kept going. Since this is a hobby machine, I can't fly in DD to fix it. Fundamentally, I really like the machine, though I never used the CNC section. I have always used it as a semi-manual machine( using the console, not the handwheels, which are very hard to turn).

regards,


Jon P.
 
I am starting to wonder if a Mach/EMC conversion is in my future? I question how long the electronics can be kept going. Since this is a hobby machine, I can't fly in DD to fix it. Fundamentally, I really like the machine, though I never used the CNC section. I have always used it as a semi-manual machine( using the console, not the handwheels, which are very hard to turn).

I have had the same dark thoughts and I have been using Mach and EMC before. So far, I'm very happy that I sticked with the Dialog. The Dialog is a professional control and you'll be disappointed with Mach and EMC and both have bugs that may damage your wonderful machine. They are suitable for and widely used for Sherline size machines that can be stopped by hand when the control goes mad. If it happens with the Deckel, it will leave you with an expense that you really cant afford on a hobbyist budget.

As far as I can tell, no real development is done on Mach anymore. And EMC is really a hobbyist project. EMC will give you control over the source though, so in my mind, EMC will be the best choice of the two.

If you go for a conversion, you'll have to solve the gearbox problem (fairly straight forward), the pulse rate problem, the linear scale problem and you'll have to close the servo loop externally. It can be done, but it will cost you quite a bit of money and time.

/Torleif.
 
Hello Guys,

Some of the people on this board have turned into good parrot’s repeating things I have told them!

But you all give this information that I have shared with you for your particular problems, that is

not necessarily someone else’s problem and it leads them from the problem not to the repair!!!!

I understand that you all are only trying to help other people, that is what the forum is about.

But wrong information is not a good thing!


Jon an O scope is totally not necessary to fix your machine nor do you need to go to component level just yet.

There are only auxiliary contacts on the Q circuit breakers!

This is basic electrical trouble shooting with a meter.

Regards
DD
 
DD;

I wasn't going to call you on a Sunday, but seeing that you are out there, I believe that I have done what you suggested tracing back along the 24v chain. I was going to try to isolate the cause further, but if you have more things to check, I would certainly like to do that. I've been commenting on the board, because I think that these problems seem to interest other owners.

Also, I haven't decided what I want to do long-term.

regards,

Jon P.
 
Interessted in NSV80 or NEA80 Cards

Dear all

Sorry for posting here, maybe other place may be better.

My friend had the problem that he didnt got any NSV80 Card so he asked me if it is possible to build this kind of card new.
We did this and we have produced some of NSV80 and NEA80 Cards.
Is anyone interested to buy such a card.
The cards have checked in to cabinets of my friend and in one cabinet of a deckel service technican.

Regards
Michael Burk
Stöckweg30
35764 Sinn
Germany
[email protected]
 
My friend had the problem that he didnt got any NSV80 Card so he asked me if it is possible to build this kind of card new.
We did this and we have produced some of NSV80 and NEA80 Cards.
Is anyone interested to buy such a card.
The cards have checked in to cabinets of my friend and in one cabinet of a deckel service technican.
Wow... I don't need one, but that is interesting that you made new cards somehow. Photos of front and rear of cards (to judge the quality of traces and solder), and prices would be helpful.

On another subject, at below link is a photo of a Sinn milling machine that was for sale here in the USA about 10 years ago. Did it come from your town ?? I have never seen another one like it.

www.practicalmachinist.com/SINN1.jpg
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by miburk View Post

My friend had the problem that he didnt got any NSV80 Card so he asked me if it is possible to build this kind of card new.
We did this and we have produced some of NSV80 and NEA80 Cards.
Is anyone interested to buy such a card.
The cards have checked in to cabinets of my friend and in one cabinet of a deckel service technican.
Wow... I don't need one, but that is interesting that you made new cards somehow. Photos of front and rear of cards (to judge the quality of traces and solder), and prices would be helpful.

On another subject, at below link is a photo of a Sinn milling machine that was for sale here in the USA about 10 years ago. Did it come from your town ?? I have never seen another one like it.

@milacron: Sorry dont know the achine type, guess it is an machine that may be used in the town SINN. Any Type or name ? Maybe the Name "Haas & Sohn" ?

I ve uploaded some photos but the files size is very limited.
If you want more detailed information we need to exchange via Emial or find a other possibility.
The prices i calculated are 500€ for the NSV80 and 450€ for the NEA80 Card.
Regards Michael
 

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Nsv80 / nea80

If you will not get mechanical parts i think you also would find a solution to keep your machine running.
It wasn't realy "reverese engineering" as the orange book includes schematic and PCB outline.
If there is any task like this (build NSV80 NEA80) please let me know, but i dont want to get in competition to any manufacture which produces the cards already.
 
Talked to DD a bit, and traced back the chain from the K7 relay. When I press the on button, I heat a kerchunk, then another a second later, then I can't try again for about 5 sec. This seems to be caused by the relay on the NSV80 kicking out. Looking at the schematic, it seems there are a lot of possible causes for that, and I may have to solder on a few wires to bring out to an o-scope to start tracking that down.


thanks for all advice, and regards,

Jon P.

Sorry for using a 11 year old thread but I feel like I probably have the same error with a Deckel fp2nc with Heidenhain 355 controller.

_FEFA1ACB-31B9-4438-A5E5-02102A6A4592.jpg
 

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