Prvomajska G301D
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    Default Prvomajska G301D

    Hi All,

    recently I've got a Prvomajska G301D milling machine, which is a Bridgeport clone.
    It came wihout any documentation. The only thing I've found is that the Mill is sold in 1970 to a Dutch tool maker.
    searching around the web, didn't help much.
    So,I've to ask, you guys to help me to find user manual and/or Work shop manual?

    best regards,

    Bertus

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    Hi.

    I have a friend in Croatia, they service prvomajska. I will try to contact him, and see if they have any info

    But can you share a picture?

    Merry Christmas Prvomajska G301D

    Best regards

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    Quote Originally Posted by ducbertus View Post
    Hi All,

    recently I've got a Prvomajska G301D milling machine, which is a Bridgeport clone.
    It came wihout any documentation. The only thing I've found is that the Mill is sold in 1970 to a Dutch tool maker.
    searching around the web, didn't help much.
    So,I've to ask, you guys to help me to find user manual and/or Work shop manual?

    best regards,

    Bertus
    A light search finds no cheap ones:

    Prvomajska G301A & G301D, Vertical Mill Instructions and Installation Manual - $69.00 : Machinery Manuals | Parts Lists | Maintenance Manual | Service Instructions | Schematics

    The OEM's English-language Hungarian website still shows five mills, new nomenclature, etc.

    At least one resembles the old one, so they may have manuals, too:

    Products | Prvomajska d.o.o.

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    Hi Thermite and Rasmush,

    Thanks for the help offered.
    @ Thermite; this is the cheapest source so far. I've looked at Tony's and he is charging 85 Pond and as far as I know., Prvomajska is charging over €100.
    eve a few French sites with a lot of manuals didn't have anything.
    that's why I started this Thread, to find out of someone could help me.
    I've added to pictures of the milling machine.
    the previous owner started to try to make an CNC-machine out of it, but had all the parts to bring it back to a manual operated machine.
    the only real bad thing is that someone has drilled a large hole through the table. that need to be fixed, before putting the machine in to service.

    20181205_195244.jpg
    20181205_195235.jpg

    the slotting head was a nice bonus.

    best regards.

    Bertus

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    Quote Originally Posted by ducbertus View Post
    Hi Thermite and Rasmush,

    Thanks for the help offered.
    @ Thermite; this is the cheapest source so far. I've looked at Tony's and he is charging 85 Pond and as far as I know., Prvomajska is charging over €100.
    eve a few French sites with a lot of manuals didn't have anything.
    that's why I started this Thread, to find out of someone could help me.
    I share the pain. It seemed to be grand that the Burke #4 had been sold to the US Army, as they insist on documentation. I should know. I once WROTE some of it (Northrop-Page and not-only). Former East-bloc manual might exist? Translation ain't hard when it is mostly numbers and engineering-driven / Standard Units data.

    Downsides is it can be borderline useless when it says things such as "use any good grade of oil" and "use any good grade of grease".

    BFD. A #4 owns two spindle bearings, it's tiny knee, an excuse for an ass, and not even a hat!

    Fast-forward to the Rube-Goldberg-was-lazy U.S Machine Tool -> U.S. Burke -> Houdaille/Powermatic "Quartet" combo mill. NICE, if one could at least ascertain which Alemite-Zerks expected a "good grade of.." and even know WHICH of oil or grease. No Joy!

    Long and short of it was I had to eventually go and see what OTHER mills with comparable ways and turret ring, and, and... that DID have manuals used. Then figure if the need is the same, the same lube should work on the Quartet, too.

    The rest - and I suspect this will be your case as well - one simply does a sort of "reverse engineering" as to correcting wear, finding belts and bearings. A weird vertical pillow-block, for the Quartet the more annoying one, especially as they got it wrong as to needing to resist axial thrust. That needs an alternative, and it is requiring surgery to make space to fit it.

    You have a "decent mill". It is more conventional than weird. You've been down this road before. I'm confident you'll sort it, even if you never lay eyes on a manual and simply write yourself some notes.

    Among Herr Pelz' earliest lessons, mid 'teen of my years:

    "Anything one good man can build, another good man can improve on."

    Slotter, aye. Easily stowed, so they need not eat much between "missions".

    If I can get around to sorting the gawdawfull HEAVY K&T slotter a prior owner adapted to the weird Quartet, I can even reclaim the floorspace the shaper now "rents".

    Small comfort, but if this s**t was too easy? It would be no fun at all ...and even monkeys could not be bothered!


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    Thermite,

    you're right. the most things I can figure out myself. learning the hard way. But you know as well; when every thing fails, start reading the f**king manual.
    Maybe it is a good idea to start there.
    in the near future I've to shrink my number of machines as the space in the new shop will be less. So,I go for a versatile one, instead a mill for every job.
    that's why I bought this machine, and yes the nodding head doesn't make it a wonder of stability. But I more interessed in to get the job done, instead of chipping volume.
    the first thing I do is remove the table, to close the hole. probably I'll find a ton chips and debry and start to clean it all out.
    maybe the friend of Rasmush can mean something to my.

    We will see, anyway I keep you posted.

    Regards,

    Bertus

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    Quote Originally Posted by ducbertus View Post
    Thermite,

    you're right. the most things I can figure out myself. learning the hard way. But you know as well; when every thing fails, start reading the f**king manual.
    Maybe it is a good idea to start there.
    It's how I learned to read German "sort of", actually. Bought a pilot-production "dealer demo" titled-as 1972 Model Year BMW "Bavaria". S/N 3100689 was a fiddle - mebbe only a thousand so built. It wasn't a true 1972 due to US changes effective 1 January. No English-language dead-tree manual for it, and the true 1972's (FI instead of carburetted) went only onto Microfiche anyway! Kept it ten good years and was DUMB enough to buy another BMW (UK model, RHD) expecting the same. Slow learner on some things, Iwas, back then.

    first thing I do is remove the table, to close the hole.
    One BAD hole is probably better than a hundred minor ones, as you have comfort in doing it up proper. I've had stupendous luck. Essentially ZERO table damage, either mill, shaper, nor the AB5/S DP.

    Here's hoping you do not have BOTH!


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    My German reading, speaking, writing is pretty good. I've to visit German tool makers every now and than when a new project in the machine shop shows up.
    currently a trip to WFL and Index-Traub is planned for March and a trip to DMG, most likely in Bielefeld earlier.
    our Company has German customers and suppliers, so I can hold my own there.

    I've an Atlas shaper which is in pretty good condition. It is an German one, not USA or India. Table in mint condition and the table hangs of only 0.03 mm over 500 mm stroke. I know, you can improve that, but it hasn't the highest priority at the moment.
    this is how the shaper looks like.
    afb050.jpg
    not the best quality photo, but it will do.

    regards,

    Bertus

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    Quote Originally Posted by ducbertus View Post
    My German reading, speaking, writing is pretty good.
    Nederlands or Flams speaking folks may be no better-off with German than when I have to switch between Spanish, Italian, and Portuguese. "So close, but yet so far!"



    .. the table hangs of only 0.03 mm over 500 mm stroke. I know, you can improve that,
    Not sure I can even on my smaller Sheldon 12", (13" "cube" capable) and even so, there's a tad of ram droop.

    Mine came out of a HS shop, still property tagged with not a lot of use on it. OTOH, the table support had been fitted BACKWARDS, and from the wear pattern off hitting only half the bottom rib it rides against, used that way for apparently it's entire life!

    Go figure where the instructors came from! It is bleedin' OBVIOUS at first glance that it was reversed, needed but the two fasteners run off and back on to correct that in mere minutes!

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    back to mu mill Prvomajska.
    yes, I do have only one bad hole in the bed.
    it is 27 mm large and all the way through.
    I'm thinking of tapping M30 x 1.5 in it and make a M30 x 1.5 plug and using Loctite to secure it.

    ATTACH=CONFIG]245781[/ATTACH]

    after curing of the Loctite I'll try to finish the T-nut.
    But any other idea is taken into consideration.

    BR,
    Bertus
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 20181227_160939.jpg  

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    Quote Originally Posted by ducbertus View Post
    back to mu mill Prvomajska.
    yes, I do have only one bad hole in the bed.
    it is 27 mm large and all the way through.
    I'm thinking of tapping M30 x 1.5 in it and make a M30 x 1.5 plug and using Loctite to secure it.

    ATTACH=CONFIG]245781[/ATTACH]

    after curing of the Loctite I'll try to finish the T-nut.
    But any other idea is taken into consideration.

    BR,
    Bertus
    Life hands you a ration of s**t, more profit in making up fast-food for Comemierdes than bagging it for fertilizer, yah?

    It's at the end of the table, so.. how hard would it be to bore or ream to some MT or a milling-machine spindle taper then just make a removeable plug?

    I'd try to find a way to put it to WORK for some handy purpose or another - such as a close and handy tool clamping vise for changing or adjusting milling cutters, drills, or such, or at least parking a vise handle!


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    well,....not exactly at the end of the table.
    you already stated: every one get's his share of s**t.
    20190102_201020.jpg
    I think about to make a threaded cast iron plug and screw it from underneath into the hole, in order to get a decent top surface.

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    Cast iron plug threaded in, loctited, and then milled to shape seems like a good idea. Note: do NOT mill the entire surface of the table, just your plug. If you can find a way to clamp a single point tool to the vertical head you may be able to "plane the plug by hand" using X to feed, to match the planed pattern on the rest of the table. Or use use a horizontal arbor with a single point tool ground to match the grooves and a very slow feed.

    PS: your M30 x 1.5mm tap will need a big long pipe as a handle. Might need to bolt down the mill for that.

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    Hi Ballen,
    we used this repair method frequently when I was working at a plant for army radar equipment. Everything had to be approved and documented.
    I've ordered a M30 X 2 tap on Ebay.de. This is a bit courser as the 1.5 mm pitch, but on the other hand, I think a little bit more flesh in the thread pattern won't hurt. The diameter of the hole is 27.5 mm, so I have to bore it out to 28 mm. I won't tap it completely thru, as the tap would destroy the little "bridge" aside of the T-nut. as the plug protrudes into the T-nut groove, I've to rework that as well. the top of the plug will peek just over the surface of the table top. the overbuild has to machined down. the last material I'll be scraping down, in order to get a good result.
    And yes, turning the M30 tap will take brute force. We will see.

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    Ballen,

    rereading your post; I've a nice fly cutter, normally used for planing cylinder heads and that kind of stuff.
    meanwhile I've found a nice chunk of cast iron, cut it in appropriate parts and start machining it.
    thread cutting with my Cazeneuve HBX is real fun.
    furthermore I've found out that the former owner cut down the spindle to place stepper motors in his attempt to convert the machine in a CNC machine.
    revesing this process takes some engineering, but is do-able
    I'll post some pics shortly.

    BR.
    Bertus

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    Hi All,

    sometimes your just lucky. I was visiting a company in the naberhood and saw in a corner a Prvomajska milling machine. When I later called them to find out, they had a manual, the answer was there wasn't such mill in the shops. after a few calls, the guy from the tech. support shop called back to tell me that it was a Prvomajska mill, but labeled as Starmill.
    So, I've scanned the users manual incl wiring diagrams. A lot to read.
    if anyone is interested, send me a PM.

    BR,
    Bertus


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