Rambaudi UR 60 spindle and quill gears
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  1. #1
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    Default Rambaudi UR 60 spindle and quill gears

    I opened up my Rambaudi spindle to look at the condition of the gears and check out the bearing adjustment. The gears are supposed to be set in DTE Heavy oil but had been changed to grease, and not a lot of it. The gears had grease but no excess in the cavity. The gasket to the cover was gone and I have no idea if oil will leak through the quill if changed back but looking for advice as to whether a return to oil should be done. The quill has an auto feed and the spindle tops lout at 1500 rpm. I forgot to take pictures but can add some later if that helps. thanks, Davedscn3413.jpgdscn3745.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by beckerkumm View Post
    I opened up my Rambaudi spindle to look at the condition of the gears and check out the bearing adjustment. The gears are supposed to be set in DTE Heavy oil but had been changed to grease, and not a lot of it. The gears had grease but no excess in the cavity. The gasket to the cover was gone and I have no idea if oil will leak through the quill if changed back but looking for advice as to whether a return to oil should be done. The quill has an auto feed and the spindle tops lout at 1500 rpm. I forgot to take pictures but can add some later if that helps. thanks, Davedscn3413.jpgdscn3745.jpg
    Oil by all means. Will it "find" bad seals"?

    Surely.

    Then you can "make a decision". Or more than just the one..

    Among those - for worn gears - is a "way oil". Vactra #2, for example, lubes the apron gears of a 10EE as well as the ways (pumped). There are thicker ones.

    "Way" oils have "tacifiers". Which stick to gears.. sorta like land-snail slime, but in a far more welcome manner.

    Even so, it is BEARINGS, not gears, as call the tune on lubes. Bad things happen if the wrong lube - or too much of it - leads to "skating".

    Sort that determinant first.


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    Nowadays you see in gearboxes a lott of that lubricant in between grease and oil
    I wonder if that would work

    Peter

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter from Holland View Post
    Nowadays you see in gearboxes a lott of that lubricant in between grease and oil
    I wonder if that would work

    Peter
    Had a Terrier dog when we were kids as was SUPER adept at getting up onto the dining room table, knocking a heavy cut glass cover off, eating a quarter-pound of BUTTER at a go.

    Pretty SURE that "that would work", as "in between.." but ... the lube the maker designed it for is prolly a better idea.. on more that just the one count.

    Some dogs might prefer aged Gouda, Marmite.. or Wilkin of Tiptree..and THEN waddya gonna do?


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    The bearings get the same lube as the gears. Other parts- mainly ways but gears too- of the machine get Vactra #2 but the head spec's Vactra Heavy. It has been my understanding from rehabbing my old woodworking machines that the old vactra was closer to today's DTE. I might be in error ( usually am ). I haven't figured out how oil is sprayed or slung to the gears and don't believe the level when full is high enough touch all the gears.

    The bearings I can see look to be standard stamped steel cage non precision bearings. I assume because they run slow there was no need to higher precision. I'm also assuming the bearings that get adjusted to tighten the spindle would be A/C and the adjustment is the preload. They are hidden inside the quill so I can't see them. Dave

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    Thot you said "DTE heavy"? That's a "recirculating" turbine oil, low/no detergent nor similar modifiers. Generally for non-pressured systems where there is no positive pumping nor filtration and nanoparticles are meant to be allowed to just drop-out, settle in a sump, STAY there until flush-month.

    10EE "Round Dial" use both DTE Light (uber-precision spindle bearings, up to 4,000 RPM.. sometimes more) and DTE Medium (threading and surfacing gearbox), then Vactra #2, apron gearbox ++, and ways.

    DTE "numbered", similar viscosity, modest detergent/suspension additives for where there iS a pump and filter. More common, medium & larger lathes to newer goods, yet.

    Vactra #4 would be a heavy. LARGE mills, high mass, rectangular bedways not uncommon.

    Gears would "pull" it and spread it from the least contact off a sump. Tacifiers help that, but it is "going to happen", regardless.

    Presuming the bearings are rolling-element? I'd NOT expect Vactra unless they run woefully slow. "Skating" could be an issue.

    Tacifiers are what they sound like. Sticky adhesives. Ergo ALSO bind surface DIRT.

    So I don't use Vactra for waylube on my 10EE's, nearly a hundred years since it entered the room as one of the Standard Oil Company, New York - Vacuum (refined) "Gargoyle" tribe.

    DTE "named" would seem better, your use? More especially so if Rambaudi specified it. They made some serious-large and uber-powerful geared milling heads for gantry mills, too - generally knew their stuff,

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    The old manual calls for Vactra #2 for the one shot oiler and many of the ball oiler points. Vactra Heavy was for the head and certain other locations. My understanding was that the old Vactra # series is still way oil and the new Vactra # can be substituted but the old vactra light, medium, heavy series is now DTE light, medium, heavy which is why I substituted DTE.

    Regardless, I'm going to flush the system and try some oil to see if leaks occur ( usually happens in my world ) and how significant they are. Dave

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    Quote Originally Posted by beckerkumm View Post
    The old manual calls for Vactra #2 for the one shot oiler and many of the ball oiler points. Vactra Heavy was for the head and certain other locations. My understanding was that the old Vactra # series is still way oil and the new Vactra # can be substituted but the old vactra light, medium, heavy series is now DTE light, medium, heavy which is why I substituted DTE.

    Regardless, I'm going to flush the system and try some oil to see if leaks occur ( usually happens in my world ) and how significant they are. Dave
    Agree DTE "named"

    If, perchance, "sub optimal" w/r stickiness, it will assuredly do the general job as lube with less risk of downside for rolling element bearings.

    I doubt there's is any significant difference in leakage propensity, if even that proves to need further remedial work at all.

    Blighty is aware that if a(ny) machine-tool doesn't seep at least SOME of it's lubes the bugger is either stone dry... Italian.. or Swiss!

    See Al Maserati and the tiny OSCA as once won 24 hours of Le Mans on "index".. the motor acquiring but the least dust, nary a smidgen of oil seeped, anywhere... 24 hours steady of chasing the "bigger dogs" as if meaning to cold-nose the lot of 'em.

    Northern Italian...

    Hmmmmh...

    Rambaudi, didja say?

    You could be in for a right treat?

    Just jealous. The weird complexity of my USMT Quartet combo mill makes Rube Goldberg look the ascetic "miminalist" by comparison...


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    Here are some pictures of the quill gear set up. I sort of understand the move to grease but still need advice as I'm not competent about this stuff. There are two ball oilers on the top of the casting that squirt oil on the gears although how all the gears find the oil baffles me. The two top shafts are bronze bushing while the bottom shaft is ball bearing. The oil must only accumulate in the very bottom enough for the worm to pick some up but there is no way for the level to get above the quill lever as there is no seal at that point. What am I missing? Davedscn3809.jpgdscn3811.jpgdscn3812.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by beckerkumm View Post
    What am I missing?
    ...that the grease tribe is well-known for not ever QUITE staying where it was put, but that the OIL tribe won't stay in one place .. even at GUNPOINT?

    "It gets around".

    That's why I suggested you stick with the OEM system and lubes.

    "At some time" back in the dawn of Northern Italian machine-tool building ...Rambaudi's ingineers prolly R&D'ed all that with a temporary glass window.. before they called it good-enough.

    The machine in front of you has been at its tasking for more than just a day or three.

    No need to second guess it. It did work. It will work.

    And you have plenty of other fish to electrocute.

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    Cleaned out the gear box and squirted some DTE Heavy on them and ran the quill with the cover off. Oil seemed to stick fine to the gears and the head ran quieter than before so all is well. Now I need to tighten up the bearings before I can seal it all up. Dave

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    To finish up this thread, I finally got the spindle gears and quill feed kickout back working. The feed engagement would not lock before the gears engaged. I had my machinist friend look at the whole thing and he believed the red steel arm in the picture had bent back towards straight and needed to be bent back 20-30 thou. Since he has the ability to make what he breaks, we put the arm in a vise and banged it a few times. Now works great.. Time will tell if the machanism is weak and problems develop over time and under load but at least I will know how to fix and adjust it in the future.

    Tightened the bearings at the same time. Oil really made everything run quietly but some type of drip oiler on the top on the head slowly dripping into the gears while running would be more convenient than climbing a ladder to lubricate. Davedscn3809.jpg

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