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Rare Deckel Compatible

This looks like a nice machine. But for me and for anyone else who would use it, the fact that it is 'very very rare' decreases the value, because spare parts and other accessories will be very very very rare. Much better to stick to the mainstream where used parts and part machines are readily available.
 
adh2000 said:
Isn’t H-S Spanish? This guy says the machine is Swiss.
Click to expand...
Going off memory here so maybe not reliable but ... originally was a couple of Swiss designers/engineers who joined up with a spanish company to make automobiles. This was prior to 1900 ? Really early. Then they built the best airplane engine in WW I. Hispano-Suiza aluminum double overhead cam enbloc V-8's kicked the germ's butts. Not as fun as Le Rhône rotaries but worked better, especially if you wanted to turn left.

After the war built luxury cars in spain then opened a subsidiary factory in france. Then during the spanish civil war the french facilities became the main one because bombs and stuff.

xSwuAq.jpg


They had a machine tool division but don't know where, and later on after ww ii got split up into pieces that were gobbled up by various different companies. Parts for aircraft engines, buses, trucks, that kind of stuff.

Craigslist guy is probably misled by the name ... The cars are très cool.
 
Is T . Nugyen still around ? He had a H-S milling machine.

The price the seller is asking seems too high. A Schaublin 53 with tons of tooling, arbors, horiz support and a dividing head that is geared to the machine (spiral milling?), just sold for $3K in Canada.
 
Hisso stuff is first cabin.....Nothing better in the luxury car world pre WWii...
Had a knack for simplistic deaign that just worked and the quality of the workmanship was the best.

Never seen one of their mills in person...has the Maho style of "X" axis ways where the ways are full width across the vertical slide, and the table travels on that..
Think it makes a bit heavier vertical assembly and possible less rocking due to weight transfer when the table traverses...

Looks like that machine has a pretty fair amount of accessories...slotter and vertical head with quill.
Looks to be Morse taper spindle tapers...mot my favorite....

Cheers Ross
 
I guess Guernica that was painted (using house grade porch paint!) in a suburb of Paris and commissioned by the Republican Spanish government is an analogy? It certainly is a fascinating painting and neat to see hp close.

Tien (TNB) on PM had an HS mill at one point…..

L7
 
lucky7 said:
I guess Guernica ... is an analogy?
Click to expand...
Maybe. But it was meant to be a comment on why the spanish portion of hispano-suiza declined while the french factory continued making beautiful cars. War is not good for living things. Not good for factories, either.

Agree, in real life it is a jaw-dropping piece of work. Come around the corner and wham ! in your face and huge, much more impressive than any photo. In a way, too bad it left New York.
 
I would not mind having a Hisso mill. Seeing it is parallel with lots of my daily work interactions....
But i would not buy any means replace any of my existing Deckels to make room for that piece of sculpture....Don't make sense to go retrograde to have a namesake trinket....

If i was not already machines/tooled up might be another matter, but reality is the Germans are just better....and for me Deckel has the better (overall) solution.....Maybe a bit less stenchy over other Euro machines
but in the end better parts availability, more accessories available and less quirky mechanisms....I am staying put thank you!
Cheers Ross
 
Indeed, I owned an Hispano Suiza mill in the past.

Interesting machine, with advanced features such as power feed (three rates !) and stops on the quill of the vertical head (no quill on the horizontal though)...

But very awkward to use due to the handwheels layout. The machine had only two handwheels for the three axis. One was for the x carriage, while a tiny lever allowed to engage the second one to move y or z.
You can take my word, it surely required extra attention, not to start a move with the wrong axis engaged... I never found any valuable reason for such a layout.

The spindle gearbox was located in the horizontal ram (top speed of 3000rpm IIRC), and the feed box was attached (including the seperate motor) to the operator side of the "knee". That made for very bulky members, but the general design was bulky anyway.
I think the machine lacked the delicate design of later euro milling machines we often discuss here.

So despite the stork on the side of the column casting, I never looked back after I sold it for a Deckel FP3.

Hispano also made tool and cutter grinders. Member Kees owns both (a mill and a cutter grinder). At least he did the last time I met him with Peter, but it's true that it was a pretty long time ago now ! :codger:

dc49678e8671aaa854be57c7e6ce349100c025c1.jpeg
 
There was also an Argentine variation of Hispano- originally, it was just an importer of the Hispano Suiza vehicles, starting in 1929. But they pretty quickly built a factory in Buenos Aires, and started making trucks, buses, and some cars, under the HAFDASA name- Hispano Argentina Fábrica de Automóviles S.A. Their diesel engines were considered pretty advanced for the time- 1930s.

Later on, they began producing firearms, including an extremely odd aluminum sub-machine gun, loosely based on a beretta sub-machine gun. I have seen these in person, they are kind of goofy looking, and only a couple of thousand were made, but they were supposed to have been pretty sturdy and reliable.

https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hafdasa_C-4

They made one prototype of a quite nice looking automobile, the El Redondo, in 1938, which unfortunately never went into production. It had a 6 cylinder diesel engine that was Argentine designed and built.

https://youtu.be/cPb0hStHskI

As far as I know, however, they never made any machine tools.
 
This particular mill has been for sale for 2+ years on various west coast craigslist listings. Price hasn't changed much. Here's an earlier thread about the same machine: Milling Machine, Hispano Suiza

Hard to tell what buyer will be interested $13k. Even assuming a high build quality, having two handwheels for three axes seems like a major disadvantage for a manual mill. I guess the seller is looking for a collector who doesn't mind the poor operator layout, but I figure any collector who may be interested has by now seen this. At $2k I could see a scrappy buyer looking past the operability issues (plus morse spindle taper), but at $13k I would be looking at a decent FP3 or FP4.
 
Halcohead said:
Even assuming a high build quality, having two handwheels for three axes seems like a major disadvantage for a manual mill.
Click to expand...
Doesn't to me. In horizontal mode you seldom move the cutter, while in vertical mode I see a handwheel on the quill. That wouldn't bother me.

But the price certainly would :)

Plus, if you've used modern nc machines, it's very common to only be able to move one axis at a time, then have to flip a switch or push the jog toggly thing in a different direction for a different axis. People don't snivel about that (maybe they should ?)
 
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