Schaublin 13 with quill

Peter from Holland · Jun 30, 2017

I had a little "Iron tour" through Sweden and Danmark 2 weeks ago
Not too exciting as there are very little Deckel Schaublin machines available
But at the last stop in Sweden I bought a really nice Schaublin 13 with a quill
Here some pics

This is how I bought it One of the few machines I bought that was in fact clean
Only problem is that the rapids makes a high pitch sound
In reality its not as bad as on the video but still Also the spindle makes a ratling sound
Have to check that out too Perhaps any of you know a solution
Peter

Milacron · Jun 30, 2017

Nice to have a vertical quill but sure is odd look compared to the more elegant designs of Deckel and the later Maho models.

ewlsey · Jun 30, 2017

That quill looks pretty handy. The quill on my Maho is pretty worthless for the kind of work you want to do on a mill such as drilling or tapping.

Milacron · Jun 30, 2017

ewlsey said:
That quill looks pretty handy. The quill on my Maho is pretty worthless for the kind of work you want to do on a mill such as drilling or tapping.

Yeah I guess the Maho quill setup looks nicer than it functions. The ultimate quill is a Fehlmann Picomax 50 series.

rklopp · Jun 30, 2017

The rattle sounds like a loose spline or gear backlash. My Aciera F4 and Deckel FP2NC both have similar sound, though not as loud. The whine sounds like a bad rolling bearing.

I think the Aciera F4 & F5 second-last generation vertical head having both screw and rack quill feeds was the nicest of all. The Schaublin quill feed looks like it would get in the way. What is the stroke?

TNB · Jul 1, 2017

Peter

I'm 99% sure the rattling sound on your machine comes from Schaublin's poor design of their workheads.

The gearing rely on straight toothed bevel gears that can become very noisy as they wear out.
Normally, all you'll have to do to confirm that is run the machine in reverse... Should give you a pretty good idea of how nice she sounded when new.
I have a 13 that makes approximately the same kind of rattling sound and I fear there's not much we can do beside swapping the bevel gears for new ones.

I've had a fair amount of FP1's, none of wich ever did the same kind of crappy noise. Not even close in fact. That's what makes me a little angry agains Schaublin because what's the point of putting polygons everywhere, when you can't put spiral gears on the most critical part of the drivetrain... :toetap:

Peter from Holland · Jul 1, 2017

I try to run them in reverse first
If those bevelgears are identical you could switch them but would that improve things ???
I could have some new ones made And redisgn them to cyclo palloid
My Hungarian gearshop could do that for about a €1000 I think

Peter

TNB · Jul 1, 2017

If the'yre the same as in the regular vertical head, you won't be able to switch them.
One is bored and comes on the spindle while the other is machine together with its arbor (a nicely machined and perfectly ground polygon that I'm sure you would trade in a heartbeat for a simple keyway and spiral gears...

)

I see you was lucky enough to get a regular vertical head. May be it as its own driving gear (the one that comes in the horiz. spindle) and won't be as loud as the quill one ?

ome.machining · Jul 7, 2017

Congrats with the new machine. It does look good. And despite what other think, I really like the quill feature/design on this. I'm sure it does work better and much faster than the quill in my Prvomajska

To me it's not the look, but how it perform. It's not a statue, but a tool

Btw, if you came from Germany to Denmark via ferry, you were very close to me, you should have dropped by, and got a beer or a coffee

Again, congratulations with the fine new mill

Best regards

Peter from Holland · Jul 8, 2017

rasmush said:
Btw, if you came from Germany to Denmark via ferry, you were very close to me, you should have dropped by, and got a beer or a coffee 

Again, congratulations with the fine new mill

Best regards

Thanks for the invitation
I keep that in mind for next time
Peter

anonimasu · Jul 23, 2017

Hello Peter I have two of them in north Sweden i am interested in selling. One in better condition then the one you posted (but without a dro) and one in parts. Write me a pm if you are interested.

Peter from Holland · Jul 24, 2017

anonimasu said:
Hello Peter I have two of them in north Sweden i am interested in selling. One in better condition then the one you posted (but without a dro) and one in parts. Write me a pm if you are interested.

PM send

Peter

traditional-tools · Jul 24, 2017

Peter,

The quill is similar to the Deckel, in regard to having a very short travel ?

Interesting setup for the quill handle.

Peter from Holland · Jul 24, 2017

traditional-tools said:
Peter,

The quill is similar to the Deckel, in regard to having a very short travel ?

Interesting setup for the quill handle.

Yes short travel
Its not a BP

Peter

traditional-tools · Jul 24, 2017

Peter from Holland said:
Yes short travel
Its not a BP

Peter

Exactly why I use my Z-axis and feed on my FP1 mostly, and rarely use the quill.

I can see the quill being handy if you only need to drill plate or thin parts, you really don't need that much travel.

Just that on larger parts the feed often needs to be longer, so you need to use the Z-axis in that case as well. Just a difference on working on one of these machines, the work envelope is much different than a BP, and thankfully the Deckels and clones are NOTHING like a BP... :cheers:

traditional-tools · Jul 25, 2017

ewlsey said:
That quill looks pretty handy. The quill on my Maho is pretty worthless for the kind of work you want to do on a mill such as drilling or tapping.

The quill is not one of the strong points, and seems using the z feed is preferable. I guess that's true on the larger models as well.

I just watched your video of your Maho, that looks like quite a machine. Looks comparable to the FP4M but has a different knee setup.

The funny thing is that it doesn't seem to me that the 4M or even your MH800 take up any more space than the FP2NC or FP3NC, or even the L models. The L models seem to waste a lot of horizontal wall space which is mostly in the front of the machine to hold the table up. In fact they seem to take less, but maybe that is why Maho went with the knee, to support the large table better? Your table looks a lot beefier than the 4M table.

I kind of like those big manuals, they don't take up too much more floor space. Not long ago Peter got a FP4M with a double angle head on it. You may have seen it, but here's a link: http://www.practicalmachinist.com/v...lls/deckel-fp4m-rare-dubble-angle-head-307280

I kind of like the 4M, I might be in the minority. One thing distinctive about the Deckels is how they put all the controls on the operator side of the machine, but nothing on the front. I notice since Maho put a knee on yours, they also put some of the controls on the front.

Would like to see more of your MH800 as you get it sorted out.

ewlsey · Jul 25, 2017

The two hand wheels on the front are for sliding the table in and out (kind of like a Devlieg) and angling the table. X, Y, Z and spindle and feed are all on the side like a other Euro mills.

I don't know the real benefit of the quill. It could only be used for boring or other slow feed operations. It works like the handwheel on a Bridgeport when it's locked in the boring feed.

Peter from Holland · Jul 25, 2017

The quill is mainly intended for co-drilling
Very handy for that

Peter

traditional-tools · Jul 25, 2017

ewlsey said:
The two hand wheels on the front are for sliding the table in and out (kind of like a Devlieg) and angling the table. X, Y, Z and spindle and feed are all on the side like a other Euro mills.

Ah, yes, you have the universal style table, forgot about that. That actually makes sense as the operator doesn't change the table that often when you're milling, in normal operation anyway. So that puts the majority of all the controls on the operator side like the Deckel.

ewlsey said:
I don't know the real benefit of the quill. It could only be used for boring or other slow feed operations. It works like the handwheel on a Bridgeport when it's locked in the boring feed.

I see a value when working thin stock, where you're drilling plate or similar. I rarely use the quill on my FP1, and use the Z feed for drilling, but a completely different beast than your MH800. Sounds kind of similar in that a kinda sorta wimpy quill was incorporated into the larger models as well.

Peter from Holland said:
The quill is mainly intended for co-drilling
Very handy for that

Peter, the $64,000 question. Did the 4M have more heads that interchange with it ? IOW, is there a boring head ? High speed head, slotting head, grinding attachment, etc ??? It seems on the FP1/FP2, Deckel intended that boring would be done with the boring head.

I haven't seen too much in the way of accessories like the FP1/FP2, but are there other heads that interchange on the 4M ?

I have to say, your 4M with the double angle head is a sweet machine. :cheers:

Cheers,
Alan

Peter from Holland · Jul 25, 2017

The slotting head, angle head and high speed head of a FP2 and 3 also fit the FP4M

Peter

Schaublin 13 with quill

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