Seeking spare parts for 2 lever FP-1

irontoys · Jul 30, 2020

Recently my Deckel FP-1 was the victim of of my foolishness, in not securing it to a forklift, when moving it. It quickly flopped off, and took out the x-axis handle, inch leadscrew, and right side x axis bearing block. As a final insult, it damaged the z axis handle, as well as the y axis handwheel. I hit the trifecta. I am hoping to find some used spares, as these are not common. Yes, I have searched eBay, eBay.de, for months.
A fellow forum member (ballen) has been most gracious, answering questions about search terms for eBay.de, and offering his advice.

I have reached out to Singer, in Germany, but have been advised that they are at a reduced capacity, due to Covid-19.
I am hoping that perhaps someone in the US may have some spares, or a caniballized machine. My machine is "inch", SN# FVW2 54701.
Of course I cannot find the year tag, but believe about 1958. Thanks. Scott

View attachment 295391

ballen · Jul 31, 2020

Scott, if you can find the serial number, that lets us identify the year. The serial number should be stamped on a number of the castings. For example on my FP2 it is on the top front of the column. You can see it here (4220):

I don't know if that's also on the FP1, but if so you just need to move the headstock back as far as possible and it should be visible.

AlfaGTA · Jul 31, 2020

Sorry about your loss.....

Try to contact "Wrench" here on this forum.
He had some FP1 parts that were surplus to his needs...seem to recall he had an "X" axis leas screw.....
Some questions:
do you have machining capabilities, such as a lathe, other machines?

With some ingenuity you might be able to substitute non specific parts for the Deckel specific items...things like hand wheels are available through component houses..
Places like "Reid" supply.

Looks like the end bracket ("X") might be repairable ...Might be able to braze it back together, or fabricate one...does not look too complex.
Precision screws are available at reasonable cost...needing to have the features machined on the ends to become a usable replacement.
Just thinking it might be more cost effective to think outside the box.

Cheers Ross

irontoys · Jul 31, 2020

I was able to find the number, 29197. My literature suggests 1952 vintage. I have the cd Allen (wrench) sent out, but cannot locate it...
I found a few other sources for parts, Kipp 180 mm x 16 mm ID 3-Spoke Handwheel with Fixed Machine Handle, Gray Cast Iron DIN 950 (1/Pkg.), K0671.2180X16 | AFT Fasteners
This handwheel looks like it could be adapted.
My bigger issue is the "inch" handwheel. the pitch is .160"/revolution. That works out to 25 turns in 4", or 6-1/4 turns per inch. My Clausing Colchester won't do it. I contacted a couple of US shops that make acme screws. The cost of a screw, and nut, is in the thousands. I hope to find a NOS shaft, or good used one.

wrench · Jul 31, 2020

Hi,
I just saw that you tried to contact me through PM. That is full (again). It fills up pretty quickly and rejects messages, so I always encourage people to use my email address (deckel.dvd atatat gmail.... just for the robots that pick trough all postings!

)

Anyhow... Sorry, although I still have a bunch of FP1 parts, I don't have any of the guys that you are showing in your picture. I wish I did because I'd love to be able to help you out, but I don't. As for the DVD... Please send me an email and I'll send you a share link. You can download it tout suite that way and be up and running again.

Alan

Alan · Aug 23, 2020

Hi Scott,
I have what I believe is a new inch cross slide screw and nut for the FP1, can you give me some dimensions of the bent one and I will confirm. Postage may be a bit as I'm in Australia. Alan.

Alan · Aug 23, 2020

Hi Scott, just to provide some dimensions of the NOS lead screw, length overall 720mm, nut dia 45mm, nut length 80mm, pitch 6 1/4 tpi derived over 4 inch measurement. Still some packing grease within the threads. Thanks to ballen for bringing my miscount to attention. Alan

ballen · Aug 24, 2020

Alan said:
Hi Scott, just to provide some dimensions of the NOS lead screw, length overall 720mm, nut dia 45mm, nut length 80mm, pitch 6tpi measured over 4 inches.

As I recall, these screws were 0.160" per revolution, which works out to a pitch of 6 1/4 TPI. The problem with 6 TPI is that it corresponds to 0.1666666..." per revolution, which is a challenge for dial-based operators.

Alan · Aug 24, 2020

Hi Scott, trying to respond to your PM says mailbox full. Thanks Alan.

irontoys · Aug 24, 2020

Alan: mailbox empty. Please try again

sigurasg · Aug 24, 2020

irontoys said:
My bigger issue is the "inch" handwheel. the pitch is .160"/revolution. That works out to 25 turns in 4", or 6-1/4 turns per inch. My Clausing Colchester won't do it.

Are you sure about that?
You may want to consult the manual for your lathe. The Colchester Student Lathe Manual has a formula for "Threads not available from the gearbox". The formula yields a pair of change gears, and essentially allows you multiple opportunities (between gearbox settings) to come up with a suitable pair of change gears.
On the face of it, it looks reasonably easy to satisfy the formula ... time passes ... more time passes ...

Son of a diddly - that wasn't easy at all, but I think it works with 48T driver and 25T driven gears in feed 6 (selection levers on AD).

It's easy enough to make the math work on my PM1236, as it normally uses a 24 tooth driven gear. Change that to a 25 tooth gear, and the 6TPI gearbox setting goes to 6.25TPI.
Of course it doesn't come with a 25 tooth change gear though

.

AlfaGTA · Aug 25, 2020

Box dead simple on my Romi M17......Just use the pitch as a function of 1/N .....Or it allows entering the TPI directly.

Cheers Ross

sigurasg · Aug 25, 2020

AlfaGTA said:
Box dead simple on my Romi M17......Just use the pitch as a function of 1/N .....Or it allows entering the TPI directly.

As an aside, isn't the original screw hardened and ground?

ballen · Aug 26, 2020

sigurasg said:
As an aside, isn't the original screw hardened and ground?

I don't think they are hardened -- as I recall from cleaning up dings on the end of my FP2 screws with a file. But I think traditionally the screw threads were manufactured with higher accuracy than is normal for threaded rods. That is important if you want to maintain 0.01mm = 0.0004" travel accuracy on the dials.

The Moore book on manufacture of precision machines contains a detailed description of how a screw thread can be carefully lapped to remove errors, and for mechanisms that can compensate for known (mapped) errors. These are very time-consuming procedures, and help explain why high-precision traditional lead screws are very expensive.

These days, in my opinion, it no longer makes sense (on manual mills) to use expensive high-precision lead screws. Instead of spending $1000+ on a very accurate lead screw, you are better off using a $100 lead screw turned on a lathe and spending the balance of the money on a good DRO. Since the DRO reads the axis position with high precision, it eliminates the effects of lead screw error entirely.

AlfaGTA · Aug 26, 2020

I made a new lead screw for the "Y" axis on an FP2 that i sold to a member here.
Material used was "ETD 150"
Comes form the mill already heat treated at around 32 RCH.....
Worked very well......Thread cut via the Romi at 6 1/4 TPI to almost finished.
Have a friend with a thread grinder that did the final passes to get the final surface finish.

Don't think you are going to find a 6 1/4 TPI screw anywhere as a stock item, i have looked...

Cheers Ross

1potatoe · Aug 30, 2020

Z axis Handwheel

I think I have one of these from a similar FP 1 if you still need one.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

irontoys · Aug 31, 2020

I had considered making my own leadscrew for this machine. 6tpi is close to original, but 166.66"/revolution to just too weird to try and even count. Module2 is even closer, (2pi, 6.28tpi) but just as weird. 5tpi works out nicely, and brass acme nuts available from usual sources. I was going to try and adapt a Bridgeport screw, (cheap at $285) when a member here offered a replacement.

I had not even considered the solution, as offered by sigurasg, to reconfigure the backgear arrangement on my lathe. So, after reading through the manual he posted, I had to go to Tonys' site (lathes.uk) and order a manual. It won't help my Deckel problems, but would be good to have.

Ross opened up another rabbit hole, with mention of a Romi cnc/manual lathe. Now, I want one.

Shout out to ballen, for help in German ebay searches. His diligence lead me to Alan, who graciously offered up a NOS imperial replacement screw. Thanks to those who offered up encouragement,( and parts!). This little machine should should be repaired soon. This group has been very helpful. Scott

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