What i'll be doing for the next month(large)

AlfaGTA · May 4, 2009

For those that have been reading this forum for a time you might remember a posting i did regarding a 1914 Peugeot racing car that we were doing and the problems i was having with the valve seats and combustion chambers.
The work involved lots of trips to the welder and lots of cutting to remove piles of weld in the hope of saving the block of a very significant car.
Well after lots of time and work the owner decided on a backup plan.
Now we are still going to finish the original block, but since this car is intended to be driven on tours and some vintage events a unit with higher confidence that could be used without fear of another failure was deemed a good idea.

The original block was sent to England where a company that does lots of F1 work was commissioned to do new patterns in order to make a new block.

Last week a box arrived and inside was my latest job.................

Fun part here is there are no drawings just the old and rather abused block.
Have to locate and machine all features on this thing and let the foundry know if it is good enough...they will make an additional 2 for spares if this casting proofs.

Not crazy about making lots of iron dust, stuff gets everywhere....but i do like the challenge...got to make it right the first time so everything fits and works as it should. Lots of hanging dimensions...such as locating the valve guied bores....angled and positioned so the bores form a line that converges with the opposite side at a point in space.

Stay tuned for more.........................
Cheers Ross

SIP6A · May 4, 2009

Ross:

That is way too cool :smoking:

Keep us posted
Todd

rklopp · May 4, 2009

Wow, now that's a project! It looks like it will easily challenge the capacity of your FP4NC.

Do I recall that the frame of that car was in your shop some two years ago, and it was also more-or-less all-new? How does the billing for a project like that work, when it's spread over years? Around here, a multi-year project easily runs to millions, depending on how many folks are working on it.

I machine cast iron on my FP2NC and the black dust ends up coating everything. Fortunately, it's easy to vacuum up, since I don't use coolant when that material. You can get pretty aggressive with depth of cut and feed with CI, though you probably don't want to do that on a one-of-a-kind engine block! You also have to watch chipping on the exit sides of cuts.

MCSF · May 4, 2009

Are you planning on doing any ultrasound or x ray for taking a peek inside the casting? Will you model it in SolidWorks or the like?

It has been very many years since I did any machining on castings - what/where will you start?

AlfaGTA · May 4, 2009

Rich:
Around here we pretty much work time and materials....billing is done every month to keep everything current.
You are correct about the chassis being here over two years. Project kept changing. Had a target look and fitting set and then more photographs surfaced that changed the targets. That happened twice and required major reassessments....

As to where to begin...that is the trick i guess. have to make a bunch of general dimensions to derive any errors of the features in the casting...Will most likely work from the center of the block out in both directions to reduce the stacking of errors .
Most important is the valve gear i think.
Cheers Ross

AlfaGTA · May 4, 2009

Oh and i forgot , the block was x-rayed by the foundry in England before they passed on the work.

Not sure i will make a solid works model ...I have started some work already in SurfCam....
Cheers Ross

JMackessy · May 4, 2009

Wow! That's a challenge, all right. Looks like a ton of inspection work after establishing the geometry, before the first chip is even cut. Will you be working mostly to centerlines, crank, bore, cam, etc.? Might need a CMM just to get a handle on it. Good Luck!, and by the way, just looking at those pic's with the casting balanced on the corner of the table is making me nervous! - Jim Mackessy

yoyo · May 4, 2009

Yes, very interesting, I look forward to reading your thoughts about how your going to approach this challenge. :skep:

rklopp · May 4, 2009

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/archive/index.php/t-109680.html

The link shows that the programming's all done. All you have to do is clamp the block to the table, load the "Peugot Block" program, and push Cycle Start.

advt001 · May 4, 2009

The patternmaker had to reverse engineer the original block in order to build tooling( right or did i miss that part?).I would start there and find out if prints or models were made by the pattern shop.

AlfaGTA · May 4, 2009

Indeed the pattern maker made a model of the block...this was based on the old block, and drawings i supplied ...i need the new part to match the rest of the existing motor, cams , drives...crank, gear lash etc.
I already have a pretty good idea of the ideal on paper feature locations...but the trick is to adjust as necessary to make everything work.
Cheers Ross

wrench · May 4, 2009

And I'm sitting here thinking... "Man, sweat would be coming out of every pore in my body working on that thing... One slip and you're potentially trashing more than I make in a year... And yet, there goes Ross... Just another day at the office!" Maybe we should call you "Ice Man" or something... You could paint it on the side of your mill the same way fighter pilot stencil their names on cockpits!

Alan

AlfaGTA · May 4, 2009

Alan:
You do know that i am a combat veteran!
Cheers Ross

wrench · May 4, 2009

LOL... Yeah, I knew that. I guess that maybe you have a greater appreciation for what is *really* important in life, as a result. The rest of us (well, me anyway) fret over things that, in the end, are just "experiences that will pass."

I look forward to the posts. It should be an interesting project, to say the least.... Me? I'm just trying to figure out how long it would take me to come up with the cut to establish the reference! You, no doubt, are probably snapping a picture right now of half the bores already done!

How long do you expect this to take, anyhow?

Gregg K · May 4, 2009

What a gorgeous casting.

Man, I get nervous just thinking about the job. But then I suppose confidence comes from the ability to see the job through before beginning it.

You're part of a prestigious pyramid, if I may say so.

As I sit here, I've been planning my new shop and house for over a year. Just the temporary construction power has me scratching my head. And I believe the work on that block could rival it.

My question would be how to use statistics to confirm the intended dimensions. I suppose it depends upon which and how many holes are intact.

Once again, it's a privilege to be the recipient of your photojournalism.

Best of luck. Although you probably don't require luck.

Edit- I'm a little confused on the geometry of that thing. It almost looks like cylinders and head in one casting. What's going on there?

Markusfu · May 4, 2009

block

Ross-I agree with Wrench........ the sweat is already pouring for you............ where to start and how does one keep from screwing up..............

Best of luck...................

Markus

Colt45 · May 4, 2009

I imagine your toolmakers table is worth it's weight in gold on this job, Iceman. :smoking:

I think it's fair to say, there's not enough room on the fuselage of your FP4NC to record all the bogeys already conquered in your shop, Ross.

Steve

advt001 · May 4, 2009

What was the reason to go overseas for the pattern and casting?I know you dont want to think about but with murphys law what would it cost to replace the casting?I read this forum daily and normally refrain from posting but this is one project that I look forward to following.

rimcanyon · May 5, 2009

Ross, what a great project! The casting is beautifully made, it would be quite interesting to see pictures of the mold and setup that the foundry used. Looking forward to the continuation of this story with much anticipation.

-Dave

HelEx · May 5, 2009

They didn't have an FP4 with all the trimmings back in 1914, nor carbide tooling. What a job it must have been for them then! I presume those are blind cylinder bores? Any idea how much a pattern-making and casting job like that would take? Better perhaps, how many man-hours?
You do have exciting projects!

- Mike -

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