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Who Stole my Spindle?

sinusvag

Aluminum
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Location
Uppsala, Sweden
Just a laugh this Saturday evening:

So I have finally begun cleaning the FP2NC I bought end of summer 2016. Crud upon crud upon crud. But it feels really good - rubbing with degreaser and steel wool gives you the time to look at all details and think about them while excruding elbow grease.

Since there is no mechanical documentation on the flipheads out on the internets and the D3 control was bust, I did not check the machine to any large degree before buying it - just thought the price was A-OK and figured I'll sort the mechanical stuff later. So I got to the part in the cleaning where I flipped the head up (that much I have figgered out to do).

Lo and behold, a mysterious nylon disk where the horizontal spindle is to be.

attachment.php


Hmm. Found the spindle brake lever in a box, attached the thingamajig to move the spindle. Nothing.

Finally inserted a screw into the nylon disk and pulled... And a void as German as nothing else opened:

attachment.php


So the question is: Who took my spindle?

Please give it back.
 
Ugh..... wonder if the horizontal drawbar hydraulics are missing as well...bummer...
 
Hydraulics comes out as a package with the spindle...and without the spindle there is nothing to support the cylinder so it couldn't be
re-installed ...it would rattle around inside the drive...

What as bummer.....be aware that i think there is an FP3NC horizontal spindle and quill up on e-bay from a member here...(At least as of a week ago)

DECKEL FP3 QUILL AND SPINDLE | eBay
Cheers Ross
 
well there's your stolen spindle... or at least a great replacement along with the drawbar...
 
Hydraulics comes out as a package with the spindle...and without the spindle there is nothing to support the cylinder so it couldn't be
re-installed ...it would rattle around inside the drive...

What as bummer.....be aware that i think there is an FP3NC horizontal spindle and quill up on e-bay from a member here...(At least as of a week ago)

DECKEL FP3 QUILL AND SPINDLE | eBay
Cheers Ross
If my 1980 FP3 or 1984 FP2NC is any guide, that eBay spindle is not the horizontal spindle but the vertical spindle. I can tell from the keyway position.

Maybe the FP3NC is different in that regard, but I would think Deckel would have purposely designed the horizontal spindles so the keyway slide was never exposed to coolant.

Regardless, it is amazingly slack of the seller to not say which it is.

=======================================================

What is this...."International Weird Deckel Horizontal Spindle Problem" Month ? One missing and another with coolant intrusion damage.....both new problems I've never heard happening before.....I wonder if the worn out one, the previous owner never used a "dust cover" for the horizontal spindle but flooded the vertical with coolant quite often, that then splashed inside the open horizontal spindle ? :confused:


Finally, I wonder if my "parts machine" 1984 conventional head FP2NC horizontal spindle is the same as his missing flip head FP2NC horizontal spindle ?
 
Good call on the keyway...also the end of the spindle is different on the horizontal, having a ring (shrunk on) that is larger in OD than the quill)
So indeed that part is a Vertical assembly....but thinking it could be adapted if its not too long.....

Guessing that the flip and non flip horizontal spindles are the same...but no direct experience on this.
By the parts book, the FP3/4 NC flip has the same horizontal spindle as the earlier non flip machine...don't have an early FP2NC parts book so i can't cross that , but if the 3/4 used the same
part, likely the early and flip FP2NC's shared the same horizontal as well...
Cheers Ross
 
Good call on the keyway...also the end of the spindle is different on the horizontal, having a ring (shrunk on) that is larger in OD than the quill)
So indeed that part is a Vertical assembly....but thinking it could be adapted if its not too long.....

Guessing that the flip and non flip horizontal spindles are the same...but no direct experience on this.
By the parts book, the FP3/4 NC flip has the same horizontal spindle as the earlier non flip machine...don't have an early FP2NC parts book so i can't cross that , but if the 3/4 used the same
part, likely the early and flip FP2NC's shared the same horizontal as well...
Cheers Ross
Yes.... my parts machine FP2NC horizontal spindle quill has a flange on the end. Also the travel is much less compared to the FP2 and FP3....which are aprox 4" travel compared to aprox 2.75" on the FP2NC I have (I wonder how much of that difference is due to the flange, since the FP2/3 horizontal quills will retract flush with the Y axis casting ?) Below are photos of my FP2NC horizontal quill in retracted and extended positions.

spindle2.jpg spindle1.jpg
 
I wonder if the PO of the machine with the missing horizontal quill got tired of listening to the bearing squeal issue. The thought has crossed my mind to take out the horizontal quill on mine, but as soon as I think the thought, I have a use for the horizontal mode.
 
Thanks for all thoughts.

Well, the previous owner was not the kind of guy who disassembles an NC-machine. Really. Sort of a plug-and-play guy - wanted a machine to do his hobby, nothing more, bought one after retiring from some machine dealer. Did his thing. I would think it somehow reasonable that he never discovered the spindle was missing. Especially since the machine dealer seemed to have given him all kinds of obsolete documentation, at least machine-wise.

I have found some clues as to where it might have went:

attachment.php


Now would anyone know where I fill up oil? My opening up of the german void emptied it all out.

(General lubing system is understood by me and way-oil acquired. If I make way with the soldering iron and scrubbing, I'll boot the machine up this weekend.)

Cheers
 
I have found some clues as to where it might have went:

attachment.php


Now would anyone know where I fill up oil? My opening up of the german void emptied it all out.

(General lubing system is understood by me and way-oil acquired. If I make way with the soldering iron and scrubbing, I'll boot the machine up this weekend.)

Cheers

No, that's clearly a vertically-launched spindle, you're looking for a torpedo-style horizontal spindle.

On the oiling issue, best approach is to tip the machine backwards, refill from the missing horizontal spindle bore hole, reinsert the plug, then bring machine back to level. Find a couple brawny friends, should go quickly...

On a more serious note - frustrating when a purchase of old equipment goes bad. I've made a few where the costs of trying to deal with it have lead to scrapping rather than additional money tossed to the winds.
 
Oil fill for that machine is at the rear of the "Y" slide....Normally the area is covered by the aluminum segmented cover. Lift the rear end of that cover if present.
On your machine (Flip head FP2NC) there are two parts to the "Y" slide. The lower section and an upper that can be moved when accessories are fitted.....(Note the two sections need to be aligned
at the front edge within .001" TIR. when mounting (closing) the vertical head) At any rate, the rear of the "Y" slide you will see a step or offset between the upper part and the lower...that step forms a sort of
trough or well. There is a screen that sits in a counter bore center ed in that trough...this is where you fill the oil for the gearbox...Machine level, to the center of the sight glass...takes time to fill it.

Oil for this gear box should be a good quality "AW 46" "Anti Wear" hydraulic oil. Uae the same oil to fill the hydraulic tank at the rear (non operators side of the machine, just below the way lube tank). (Hydraulic tank is cast into the base of the machine)

Cheers Ross
 
Oil fill for that machine is at the rear of the "Y" slide....Normally the area is covered by the aluminum segmented cover. Lift the rear end of that cover if present.
On your machine (Flip head FP2NC) there are two parts to the "Y" slide. The lower section and an upper that can be moved when accessories are fitted.....(Note the two sections need to be aligned
at the front edge within .001" TIR. when mounting (closing) the vertical head) At any rate, the rear of the "Y" slide you will see a step or offset between the upper part and the lower...that step forms a sort of
trough or well. There is a screen that sits in a counter bore center ed in that trough...this is where you fill the oil for the gearbox...Machine level, to the center of the sight glass...takes time to fill it.

Oil for this gear box should be a good quality "AW 46" "Anti Wear" hydraulic oil. Uae the same oil to fill the hydraulic tank at the rear (non operators side of the machine, just below the way lube tank). (Hydraulic tank is cast into the base of the machine)

Cheers Ross

Thanks Ross! Will do.
 
BTW, Ross: any idea of volume of hydraulic oil needed in total? Are we talking +5 liters for an empty system?

Some Hermle documentation (UWF 851) talks about 0.9l for its hydraulic pump as comparison. Adding to this would be what is needed to fill the Y slide.
 
If that ebay spindle is the one I think it is, it belongs to a PM member and is from a non-flip FP3NC vertical head I once owned.
 
Manual says 5 liters for the hydraulic tank...
1-2 liters for the spindle gear box. Guessing the FP2NC will be at the low end of that range...
Manual lube chart does not differentiate between the FP2, FP3 or FP4NC and the FP4NC of course has a larger gearbox employing two sight glasses....


Also be sure that the clear oil feed line that goes to the vertical head is full of oil as well.....That oil lubes the bevel gearing for the vertical, important when you start running above 3150 RPM....(high range)

If the line is not full, you can prime it as follows: Remove the cover at the rear operators side on the "Y" slide that carries the model name printed on it. Inside are the three pancake motors that shift the gear box...to the rear of the motors is a black assembly that has an electrical cable connected to it...on top is a round boss with a button in the center....that assembly is the oil pump. Depress the button in the center of the boss to
pump oil and fill the clear line..get all the bubbles out....
Don't worry about giving it too much oil as it recirculates, and returns to the gear box.....

When the vertical head is being used there is a "Dry-brake" that connects the head to the sump....when open for horizontal, there is a drain in the top of the slide that gets this oil and returns it to the machine gear box...

Cheers Ross
 
Hi all,

I know this thread is old, but maybe the missing spindle is not yet found?

I see that "Sinusvag" is located in Sweden and this is an Swedish website for selling stuff, see below:

Blocket - Sveriges storsta marknadsplats, bilar, bostader, mobler m.m.

As you can see the seller also translated the words into english.
He found it during a cleanup of his old place!

I dont know if it is a Horizontal or a vertical spindle but otherwise it all matches up to what "sinusvag" is missing.

Best regards
Henrik
 
What is shown is a horizontal spindle. with hydraulic cylinder and extension pipe to get the hydraulic oil from the rear of the "Y" slide to the spindle.....
What is missing at least in the photos are the tool gripper fingers, that i believe are quite expensive.

Further, it should be noted that i believe that the spindles are individually fitted to each machine as there is some manufacturing tolerance in grinding the OD of the quill....
So it could be that the one pictured could be a perfect fit, too loose or too tight in any given machine....

Cheers Ross
 








 
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