WTB: Aciera mill F3/F4

Ready to have an F4 shipped from Germany but thought I would see if anyone on here has one for sale.

seokeefe said:

Ready to have an F4 shipped from Germany but thought I would see if anyone on here has one for sale.

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That is quite a first post!

You know ricardo.ch - Günstig online kaufen und verkaufen in der Schweiz <-- search aciera. Those are expensive. There are more. Mine needs new bearings in the drive gearbox. It collects water if the machine is idle/outdoors/whatever. 'rklopp' has a thread on his drive bearing replacement.

Its an all metric machine. Why?

Can't explain it really...

I'm not a rich man, nor that smart really...but I do appreciate fine machinery. I have a couple of Maho MH400P's that keep giving me headaches with electrical problems. After 3-4 years of diligent looking (checking various online classifieds, only to be too late in many cases) I've decided I'd rather spend the money and enjoy the machine. I regret not spending the money back then.

Yes, there are a few Deckel's around, but the asking price for a well kept machine is usually in the teen's or higher.

Shipping from Switzerland is ~$2000. Decent machines are ~$8000 well accessorised. Do you already have SK30 tooling? The MAHOs are SK40, aren't they? 40 taper F4 machines are quite rare.

What is wrong with the 400P? They are usually more expensive here.

Is Ricardo a reputable business or is it an auction site akin to Ebay?

I was going to fly over for a week and try to find a reasonable machine, pay cash, and hopefully witness it being crated.

I have a close friend in Lugano that had offered to help with the transaction, but I'm beginning to wonder if I should be dragging him into such an ordeal.

Any advice is appreciated.

What is wrong with your 400P? Mueller has some beautys, but they are Expensive.



Do you consider an F4 trading up?

You need 2 weeks. 3 if you ski.

Perception

I see the Maho's go for relatively cheap over here so it's surprising to see them fetch those prices. I paid only $3500/ea for my two 400P's, both with tilting tables, and in good condition. I rebuilt each head in an attempt to eradicate some phantom noise, albeit with limited success.

And no, I don't really consider it trading up...more like going from Ford to Chevy, or similar....but you have me thinking I'm going from Porsche to Volkswagen. Is that analogy more fitting?

I don't use my machines to generate income, only to perform the odd job for friends here and there. Occassionally I get really ambitious and tinker with 2 stroke diesels, which is why I have enjoyed the Maho's so much (tilting head & horizontal boring).

Thanks for the advice.

An Aciera is a fine machine.

You need to find an F5EP or better if you want ballscrews.

Karl the Maho Doctor once told me something to the effect that the "P" series of Maho's were the worst Maho's ever made. I tried to pin him down on why and it seemed to be that they had the most electrical/electronic problems and were the most difficult to repair same. This coming from someone who has worked on them all, over decades of time.

The smaller P series are kinda weird looking to me...really skinny bodies, main electrical box poking way out the side, main console unnecessarily "fat", vertical head hydraulics "hat" ridiculously skinny and tall, etc

In stark contrast, IMHO, the final generation manual Maho's are more properly portional and not so troublesome.



<jbc>...pleeeeasse tell me you are not going to paint that Schaublin 135 blue and white !

As <jbc> said, I am the owner of an Aciera F4. It's a wonderful machine, and I use it quite a bit, but I really only bought it because it came along at the right time, the price was right for me, and it was being sold by a dealer with a known reputation. If I'd set out looking only for an Aciera F4, I might have waited for a very long time or caved and settled for a worn out piece of junk. Instead, I sat ready to pounce on the first really decent Deckel FP2, Maho, or Aciera that came along. 40-taper tooling and minimal electronics* were prerequisites. If I were in your shoes, I'd hang on until the right machine came along, rather than trying to scare up an über-rare machine. But...I am not in your shoes.

By the way, the Aciera F3 is tiny compared to the F4, which suggests to me you are not really sure what machine will suit your needs.

*I have a Deckel FP2NC which, if the electronics die, becomes a boat anchor. I have been a mechanical engineer practically since I was a toddler. The Aciera is mechanical, so if something needs fixing, I have the skills.

I too am an mechanical engineer. I like [and own] European machines only as a means of tinkering...therapeutic really. My wife takes a hot bath to relax, whereas I dissappear to the garage and turn the hand wheels on my F2, all with the spindle off.

F3 or F4 or F5...doesn't really matter as I don't use them to build steam engines or model airplanes. But if I'm going to pay to ship an F3, I may as well ship an F5 as the freight at that point isn't going to be significantly more.

Problem for me is that I've been sitting, waiting, ready to pounce for the past 4-5 years. There is no enjoyment in sitting & waiting. I'm not getting any younger and these machines are only getting more difficult to find.

Bit confused.....you state earlier that:

"Yes, there are a few Deckel's around, but the asking price for a well kept machine is usually in the teen's or higher."

My impression is that a good condition Aciera will not be less money than a like for like Deckel....

There being more Deckels about seems to give you better chances to find a nice machine if your search was widened.....Hard to believe that you will do better on the Aciera than say a Deckel ...even with traveling to Europe.

Not sure we ever got the answer as to what is wrong with your Maho....
Aciera makes a nice machine and perhaps this quest is fueled by wanting to own "Swiss" or you like the name or.......

But if the object is a nice high quality Euro mill, then i think you are cheating yourself by looking only at the Aciera....

You state that you have been looking or 4 or 5 years...Seen a number of nice Deckels change hands in that time right here in the US. Have owned and traded some myself and the U.S. prices lately have been pretty reasonable.

Hope this works out well for you and i hope you will keep us informed as to your choice and how it all turns out.

Cheers Ross

AlfaGTA said:

"Yes, there are a few Deckel's around, but the asking price for a well kept machine is usually in the teen's or higher."

My impression is that a good condition Aciera will not be less money than a like for like Deckel....

There being more Deckels about seems to give you better chances to find a nice machine if your search was widened.....Hard to believe that you will do better on the Aciera than say a Deckel ...even with traveling to Europe.

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Re "prices in the teen's", I think he's thinking in terms of Aktiv final generation Deckels only, in which case that statement is correct. But then it's hard to imagine finding a final generation Aciera F4 in Europe for less than "teen's" (plus crate, overseas ship and duty cost), one that is in decent condition anyway. So perhaps he's found one of the older "rounded style" Aciera F4's over there for cheap. But if settling for the older style why not simply buy an older style Deckel over here for less than $10K ?

My only guess would be that the older style Aciera's look nice from a machine design stantpoint, but the older style Deckels not so nice...esp the older Deckel FP2, which is an aquired taste indeed