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  1. #61
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    Wow. I'm terrified to think what that must cost...

    I guess the guy just likes scraping? I don't understand why he would scrape the end of the bed and sides of the apron. That seems like a lot of work for no benefit other than looking cool. Not to mention the potential for rust on those surfaces once the machines get back to the real world.

    I'm very surprised he does not use Turcite to build up the carriage and get the center height back. Plus Turcite would be a superior bearing surface if the bed ways are hard (I assume they are).

    As far as the needle bearings, I've seen them in mill spindles, but not in lathe spindles. They claim they make the spindle stiffer if you don't need high RPMs. The manufacturer will specify how "tight" the bearings should be. I set them for a "threading" fit. That means you cannot slide the spindle into the bearing without also rotating it. It takes a lot of trips to the grinder taking off a few tenths from the shims to get it right.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewlsey View Post

    I set them for a "threading" fit. That means you cannot slide the spindle into the bearing without also rotating it. It takes a lot of trips to the grinder taking off a few tenths from the shims to get it right.
    What sort of shims set the size of a needle roller setup? Can you explain?

    On a Deckel with needle roller spindle the size change is via different sized rollers in the needle roller pack...and the steps are graded in microns....

    Cheers Ross

  3. #63
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    The needle bearing collapses slightly the more you squeeze it from the end. The squeeze is set by grinding a spacer.

    Personally I think it's a bad design. The bearings are limited in RPM and IMO they don't last as long as other designs. A matched set of angular contact bearings is a lot easier to deal with.

    I've also seen spindles with both angular contact bearings and needle bearings in combination. On those the needle bearing is like a backup to increase stiffness.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewlsey View Post

    Personally I think it's a bad design. The bearings are limited in RPM and IMO they don't last as long as other designs.

    My experience her is limited..Seen lots of Deckel spindles with needle rollers and never seen one that died due to wear or use...Have seen some that were dead due to water and
    corrosion ..but not from wear....Lots of machines running on this forum that were built in the 60's that have never had any spindle bearings replaced....
    Where the ball bearings that carry the bevel gears above the spindle do seem to need regular replacement...

    Deckel might not be a good example relatively low spindle speeds and relatively large contact area on the bearings.....Also there is no real side load such as a belt to
    add to the side wear....
    Cheers Ross

  5. #65
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    I think the idea is the prevent the spindle bending between the top and bottom bearing sets. Seems cheesy to me.

    Contamination is a problem for all spindle bearings. Even the closest running labyrinth seals will still allow something in. The air purge seals are pretty cool but only on fancy CNC machines.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by TNB View Post
    I use a very simple Canon G10
    I used to use a Sony N5 but now the iPhone 6S photos are so sharp I rarely use it anymore. Sony N5 still needed for depth of field shots but most else the iPhone is amazing.

    http://default.media.ipcdigital.co.u...X-5N-FRONT.jpg

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewlsey View Post
    Wow. I'm terrified to think what that must cost...

    I guess the guy just likes scraping? I don't understand why he would scrape the end of the bed and sides of the apron. That seems like a lot of work for no benefit other than looking cool. Not to mention the potential for rust on those surfaces once the machines get back to the real world.

    I'm very surprised he does not use Turcite to build up the carriage and get the center height back. Plus Turcite would be a superior bearing surface if the bed ways are hard (I assume they are).

    As far as the needle bearings, I've seen them in mill spindles, but not in lathe spindles. They claim they make the spindle stiffer if you don't need high RPMs. The manufacturer will specify how "tight" the bearings should be. I set them for a "threading" fit. That means you cannot slide the spindle into the bearing without also rotating it. It takes a lot of trips to the grinder taking off a few tenths from the shims to get it right.
    He scrapes the sides and other parts of the machine to practice he said
    He wants to get as good as his diseased father in law
    Also if you grind it you have to take so much off that all dents are gone
    With scraping you can hide some

    If he would use turcite he would make a modification on one of the best lathes ever
    Thats something he does not want
    IMHO Turcite needs more surface area to function properly
    Comparing a Weiler Ergodor with a AI Hembrug Ergonomic
    The Hembrug designed from new with Turcite with wider ways
    The Weiler was a excisting machine with normal ways and addapted with turcite
    The Weiler has a bad reputation for way wear while the Hembrug does not have that problem and is regarded a very good machine

    Peter

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  9. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter from Holland View Post
    The Weiler has a bad reputation for way wear while the Hembrug does not have that problem and is regarded a very good machine
    Wow....glad I didn't buy the Weiler version that Orca Machinery had for sale on eBay then. They actually agreed to sell it to me for what I offered, made out an invoice, the whole deal... and they found the regular tailstock.

    But then the video they agreed to do for final confirmation that it and the DRO ran ok was so lame* I made fun of it, requested another video and gave more specifics about what to show in video.....but the son part of the duo got "insulted" and decided to put it back on the market !!

    --------------
    *The video confirmed the 3 axis DRO had blinking zeros, the spindle sounded ok in one slow speed, and one of the axis power feeds worked. Also that it had a "beautiful work lamp".

    That's it.....either complete machine tool ignorance or something to hide.

  10. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter from Holland View Post

    If he would use turcite he would make a modification on one of the best lathes ever
    Thats something he does not want
    IMHO Turcite needs more surface area to function properly
    Comparing a Weiler Ergodor with a AI Hembrug Ergonomic
    The Hembrug designed from new with Turcite with wider ways
    The Weiler was a excisting machine with normal ways and addapted with turcite
    The Weiler has a bad reputation for way wear while the Hembrug does not have that problem and is regarded a very good machine

    Peter
    I would wager that the issue with Turcite on the Weiler is not one of surface area, but rather poor way wiper design or setup.
    Turcite and Rulon are relatively soft and fines and swarf are easily imbedded into the surface creating a relatively abrasive surface....
    This will accelerate the way wear...
    Turcite has a lower coefficent for friction than iron...as such will wear less....Less friction = less wear....

    Early CNC Deckels have trouble with the inside faces of the vertical box ways...Wear and gauling are the result on the iron/iron contact side...
    No such problem exists on the opposite way face where the gib is clad with Turcite....
    Cheers Ross

  11. #70
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    I know the theory why turcite should wear less
    But on these machines the wipers are the same design
    And I am not comparing 2 machines but it is a general trent on all these machines
    Even if you ask Weiler they recognize the machine is not one of their best
    On 2 or 3 of the Weilers ergodors I was involved in rebuilding we also did grind the back of the ways and incorported that area in the bedways On the first one we rebuild we did not do that and we had to redo it about 2-3 yers later The ones we modified held much longer

    Peter

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    Has anybody ever seen a Leinen DLZ190/s? It must be the rarest toolroom lathe, if you consider the extreme price (new) of its smaller brother.Even Mr.Kramer has no pictures at all on his site.

  13. #72
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    A friend of mine has one.

    Basically, it looks exactly like a 140 with riser blocks under the headstock, tailstock and compound slide...
    Rüdiger Kramer could probably tell us if there's more to it than just that but as for me, I really don't know and it's not obvious.

    Even the bedways width seems the same as on the 140.
    A little weird looking in fact.

    I think I have a few pics on another computer. I'll try to post some.

  14. #73
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    The S version is the super precision version
    If you need one rebuild I think Ruemema has the last spindel bearings available worldwide for those
    Just for the price of a set of these you buy a decent used lathe

    Peter

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    Quote Originally Posted by TNB View Post
    A friend of mine has one.
    Basically, it looks exactly like a 140 with riser blocks under the headstock, tailstock and compound slide...
    Rüdiger Kramer could probably tell us if there's more to it than just that but as for me, I really don't know and it's not obvious.
    Even the bedways width seems the same as on the 140.
    A little weird looking in fact.
    I think I have a few pics on another computer. I'll try to post some.
    Another very interesting fact is the spindle bore of the 190 model.Normaly it should be bigger than the 140's(30mm?).That means a much more expensive bearing setup,and probably a heavier spindle.If TNB is correct, I am curious how they managed to fit all these components in such tight space


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