Contest for the most insane member (They will be a Maho owner) - Page 4
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  1. #61
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    Glad to hear you're ok from the accident. Those sort of things can certainly give one a different perspective. Excited to see new posts. I look in from time to time to see if there are any updates. Your attachments in the post earlier today aren't showing up for some reason.

    Can't wait to hear more about the Heidenhain upgrade. HSK100! What a beast. Excited for you.

    I use a Haako FR-300 for desoldering with a few of their different tips. Works like a champ.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BugRobotics View Post
    Can't wait to hear more about the Heidenhain upgrade. HSK100! What a beast. Excited for you.
    Thanks, it all comes down to time and money now. With all the varied forms of tasks I do I have been known to redirect funds for tools almost constantly which makes it harder to make the big purchases like a replacement Heidenhain control. The design of the MC800H spindle is such that there isn't much of a drawback swapping out the nose after the machine is completely together and has been running, so that mod will be less of a priority than the control. Taking the magazine chain off the ATC and taking it all apart for the different tooling taper will be a huge job though. Getting new chain "holders" made will cost me a a bit in time and material too... all 120 of them.

    20190521_031009.jpg

    This is made from turned steel bar, over 3.5" diameter! The portion that "grabs" the pull stud to hold the tool comes out and is retained by an internal snap ring. I'll have to come up with a whole different solution for HSK but at least I can reuse all these steel parts and just cut out the inside to suit the larger taper. These are sized to be able to be machined for Cat50 so there is plenty of meat to work with.

    Quote Originally Posted by BugRobotics View Post
    I use a Haako FR-300 for desoldering with a few of their different tips. Works like a champ.
    As mentioned above about always spending money on tools ... these units aren't cheap but then again I don't want anything cheap anymore anyway. I was looking at the higher wattage FR-410 which has a separate vac station with suction display but that gets quite pricy... Have you ever found the FR-300 to run out of heat for desoldering larger bulk caps or anything like that? I usually do a bunch of soldering in spurts and then not do much electronics work for a few months. From what I've been reading I think the FR-301 might be the best balance of quality and cost for where I'm at. Thank you very much for putting me onto these guys, your positive review on their products means more to me than their ads or questionable reviews on sellers sites.

  4. #63
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    I don't own a Maho, but I admire your perseverence.
    This is quite a feat you're attempting and I would like to see the completion.

  5. #64
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    This is by far and away the most incredible thread I have ever read on here. You sir win the prize!

    I am in the middle of restoring a '90 Kitamura Mycenter 4, and when I saw the picture of you dragging the castings through that tiny window I laughed my ass off! This is my first VMC and I am in a similar situation to you in that I am keeping it at a friend's shop under agreement. Hopefully I wont have to take mine apart to move it...

    I am humbled by the caliber of this restoration! Bravo!! I have been lurking on this forum for years and you get my first post!!

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    Thanks everyone for your supportive comments.

    I would have had Maho Sr. done by now if it wasn't for other machines taking priority. Ever since I picked up Maho Jr. I haven't been as desperate to have Sr.'s capabilities, at least not as compared to my current high priority project:

    sl6b_1.jpg

    ..a late 80's Mori Seiki SL6B. She has been quite neglected but the parts that count appear to be in pretty good shape.

    sl6b_2.jpg

    I've already had all the bodywork painted (I'm not doing spraying in-house anymore), now it's mainly castings that need to be refinished. I've stripped about 50% of the paint so I have a bit more of that to do before I can paint and then repair/reassemble.

    This lathe has a 6.3" ish through spindle bore with a 20" Howa pneumatic chuck (If anyone has documentation on that chuck or this lathe in general I would be very interested). Tearing down the chip conveyor was just nasty... it has been completely stripped, blasted and recoated though so it's nasty days are over. It is a very large and heavy conveyor!

    This machine is a perfect complement to most of what I build on my 5 axis mills. I wanted something with really high rigidity and quality above all else. Research has led me to believe this is one of the more rigid lathes ever made in it's size category. I'll add more pics as it progresses. I didn't want to post too many pics of her in this condition as it's not really a fair representation of the mechanical condition of the machine. My tree lathe was worse when I started so I'm not too worried about this project.

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  8. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerv View Post

    I tear down the control to it's individual boards and swap out all the caps.

    Now I do have 2 machines with a Millplus control (1995 and 1998 ) so far so good but this worries me a bit. I have been told the Philips board are 4 layers and hard to replace parts. How did you do that?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kees View Post
    I have been told the Philips board are 4 layers and hard to replace parts.
    This is just my opinion but the layers in the board have little impact on the difficulty replacing parts as compared to whether or not the board uses through hole components vs surface mount. When these controls were made this was when the shift to surface mount was happening and luckily for Millplus owners these controls are largely through hole components.

    If you have a good desoldering tool that is 99% of the equation. As BugRobotics said earlier, something like the Haako FR-300 will make your life much easier and greatly reduce your chances of damaging those precious boards. Once the old solder is largely removed the components will pretty much fall out. I found replacing caps on these parts to be a breeze compared to the surface mount boards on the newer Fanuc controls for example.

    What machines do you have with Millplus? What control version? What CAM are you using? Feel free to PM me if you like.

    Dave

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    Will you also be doing a thread on the Mori? Would love to see pictures of that project as well.
    Mark

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    I can add info about the Mori in this thread, it's technically not the right exact section but Mori is part of "DMG Mori" now so it's close enough. The title of this thread is broad enough to allow me digressing a little with other machines being worked on. I've been toying with the idea of making a page somewhere where I can have much higher detailed writeups with pics of all my projects, not just CNC projects, we'll see.

    Here are a couple pics more recent from the Mori:

    Way comparison between nasty and cleaned:

    ways.jpg

    Turret removal:

    turret_1.jpg

    Thanks everyone for your interest. This Mori is stout... especially when you compare it to the Tree!! The Tree UP1000 turret looks like a little toy in comparison.

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    Those ways look in nice condition.

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    Yes, this machine is more of a victim to extreme filth neglect rather than rust or grit. I prefer a machine that is covered in greasy and oily goo because once you do get through all the mess there is usually a pretty good machine under it all. Also usually the machine will have stopped working because of something pretty simple to repair such as a sticking switch or overheating control rather than a rusted ballscrew or a hidden broken casting somewhere. I had a guy local that was trying to make me a deal on a live tooling lathe that had a cracked turret casting and at least one bent ballscrew.

    No thanks!

    Still it was hard for others to understand what I was thinking when the machine first came in. It looked like it was ready for the melters and the smell was unbearable. I have photos of the sheer amount of black sludgy crud I scooped out of everywhere on the machine. I can only imagine what the insides of the lungs of anyone who worked where this machine came from look like.

    No way you are going to live a long life inhaling that!

    Just trying to clean the fan screens off the HUGE DC motor... I tried fresh varsol and it didn't even soften what is on those a little!

    spindlemotor.jpg

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    Very excited to see how your Mori cleans up. I have been thinking for a while that I'd like my next purchase to be an older Mori lathe to complement my Kit. I am also looking at late 80's early 90's. Size wise an SL-35 would suit my needs. I just keep telling myself that I need to do one thing at a time for now... I have become very adept at accumulating projects over the years...

    Do you plan to retrofit any kind of tool setter?

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    Hi Chuck,

    So far the Mori appears to have very high build quality and well thought out design just from working on it. We'll see how well it runs once this is all finished. As for how it will "clean up" I'm cheating this time by repainting... I've been avoiding paint on Maho Sr. as much as possible but with the Mori I have no choice and I want to change the color scheme anyway. All the machines in my shop will have the same colors which is almost identical to Maho Sr. but with white added like Maho Jr. and the pink color removed. When I get Maho Sr's external paneling repainted I'm thinking of changing it's colors too to match...

    Here is the scheme - Basically it's white for sheet metal, light grey for castings and dark grey for doors with the inside door surface high gloss white (for visibility). There are some exceptions to make it look better such as on the Mori everything below the doors is light grey on the outside and everything above is white except the doors themselves. Once it is done everyone can weigh in on what they think of my scheme. I think it will look very sharp. Note the electrical cabinet doors might not be dark grey, only doors to the machining area or pallet area as the case may be. Now the Maho machines have dark grey on the electrical cabinets on Sr. and light grey on the elctrical cabinets on Jr, so I'm not certain what color I will make the cabinets on the Mori if and when they get painted.

    The Mori and the Daewoo (Puma 12L, another project for later) will have by far the biggest improvement in appearance as their paint from factory is from a time of industrial greens and blues that aren't very pleasing to the eye. At least I don't think they are anyway.

    I picked up the rest of the sheet metal from paint today, including the conveyor. Before:

    conveyor_before1.jpg

    And now:

    conveyor_after1.jpg

    Much better!

    As I'm getting a better feel for the shop I'm getting to do my coatings I'm thinking of prepping all the castings that are removable such as the tailstock, turret and X axis carriage and taking them over to be only sprayed. All the sheet metal was grit blasted, primed and painted with industrial Endura paint but I don't want to get the castings grit blasted. We'll see what comes of it all. I'm really fighting the urge to pull apart the cabinets and hydraulics to strip the entire cabinet enclosures off the machine and get them painted too. By the time I'm done I have a feeling I'll give in to that urge since everything that has been done so far looks so much better and makes the rest look so much more filthy. Every time I do these projects it is easy to get caught trying to do the absolute best job possible even though it may not actually improve the functionality of the machine itself, or even it's resale value. At least I guess I'll know it was done well. I have no idea how some people just mask a few things and spray the whole machine assembled... I could never do that!!!

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  17. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerv View Post
    ..... I have no idea how some people just mask a few things and spray the whole machine assembled... I could never do that!!!
    The lure is almost overwhelming to me, too! It's just so much more pleasant to work around nicely painted machines, and that's where we spend a lot of our time. I feel so much better as a result. It's really about how one wants to live.

    Good on you!

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    I started out with most of my machines being the RAL6011 green color. I hated it at first, but over the years the color has grown on me so much I actually painted all the structural members in my shop that green. I like to call it "mental hospital green".

    I think painting machines should really be a best effort thing. I have done the full teardown, fill and spray route and never again. It wasn't worth it. My time is worth way more than that. I'll do all that and then a nicer machine with more doodads pops up for pocket money in nice shape. Every damn time!

    I'm inspired by your re-capping endeavor. I really should do this to a couple of my old ones I really like. I'm pretty sure once I do though it'll shit out turcite or lose a spindle or something else fun.

    Keep up the good work.

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    Your chip conveyor looks amazing. I admit I am somewhat guilty...I am repainting my Kit and I did not go to near your level. I pulled all the panels off to sand and repaint. I used PPG Amerlock which is a 2 part epoxy paint. I was constrained by cost & time of doing it all myself (especially since it is not sitting in a shop that I own). Mine looks much improved, but not anywhere near the majesty of that conveyor! This being my first machine I am focused on getting it running and starting production so that I can afford the next one. Huge respect to you! I have some semblance of the scope of that job and here you have done it multiple times!!

    I am also interested in recaping my machine after seeing what you have done with Maho Sr. Keep the inspiration coming!

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    That Mori is a beast. Some guy at DMG Mori told me that the current NLX is just a year-by-year improvement of the lathe you have. To me the basics looks exactly the same on the machines. I inquired about the longevity of the ways and the answer was that the ways will outlast everything else on the machines. They apparently did that before there were way covers too..
    Please keep us up to date on how both projects are going. It is great reading and looking.

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    First, thanks everyone for your encouraging feedback!

    Chuck, I see I didn't touch on the tool setter question: I don't know if I'll bother. Touching off lathe tooling isn't all that frequent, at least not for me especially with 12 tools in the turret. I'm quite used to touching off tooling now the Millplus/Bosch (German?) way which I don't even use an MPG and that is quite fast so I'm not sure the extra parts to buy and potentially get damaged is worth it. If I came across a setter that was suitable for the machine for cheap enough then maybe. Tweaking the ladder on this age of control is nowhere near as easy as the newer Fanuc machines and I don't have the original ladder diagrams to determine how much of that ladder is already in place. I wouldn't be surprised if it does have some logic in place for the setter already.

    Garwood, I know where you are coming from in regards to putting in the time and then finding something better for dirt cheap... That has been the story with pretty much every machine I've done so far. This time is different though with both my projects, I'm getting more particular about what machines are chosen for such attention. I'm not confident there are many machines out there that are better than the MC800H in terms of sheer rigidity and dynamic capability as a ratio in such a machining volume. What lets that machine down of course is the control but I'm likely going to improve it so it can realize it's full potential. Even if I did wind up finding machines that had more capability I'm not going to be finding them dirt cheap I don't think. On the turning side the Mori is quite old but the massive ways and overall design will work so well for the type of parts I build that I don't think a newer machine would be better in any major way. I do all my programming in CAD/CAM and can write my own posts so the age of that control isn't worrying me as much as it would if it were a mill, I did molds on a Fanuc 6MB control and although it wasn't great it was capable of far more than I had thought I would ever be able to do with it, efficient code filtering and dripfeeding made a big difference. The lathe will not need anywhere near the programs required for a mill doing molds so I think it'll work well. My only complaint about the SL-6B is that it isn't an SL-6C. The C has over a 10in bore but it is a chucker and as such has no tailstock. The B has a programmable tailstock that obviously can have the quill programmable but also unlocking the tailstock and moving it to a new position. I know this is quite common on newer lathes but back in the late 80's this must have been a much less common feature. I'm going to keep my eye out for a SL-6C after I'm finished this one as I think the two will complement each other well for designs I've been working on lately. I think fixing the Puma 12L though may be exactly like you describe, I've already had buddies come across cheap lathes in better shape than it is in. We'll see.

    Quote Originally Posted by Panza View Post
    That Mori is a beast. Some guy at DMG Mori told me that the current NLX is just a year-by-year improvement of the lathe you have. To me the basics looks exactly the same on the machines. I inquired about the longevity of the ways and the answer was that the ways will outlast everything else on the machines. They apparently did that before there were way covers too..
    Please keep us up to date on how both projects are going. It is great reading and looking.
    Thanks for your feedback Panza, I think what makes the ways last so long on these machines is how large they are and how much area the loads can spread over the ways. I took a photo just now, the lower way is 5.5" (140mm) across.

    waysize.jpg

    I think what matters most now is to make certain the lubrication system is functioning correctly and that all oils and fluids are completely flushed and replaced. It is too early to know if the spindle bearings need any love, it is tempting to get at them and replace the grease used in them but if it sounds good when I first run it I think I'll leave them. Time will tell.

    Anyone out there have scanned copies of any SL6 documentation? Daewoo/Doosan had no problems providing me quite a bit of information on my 12L for no charge. Even Deckel Maho has been amazing with the support of information for the MC800H... Mori wants quite a bit of money to walk over and scan the books they have in storage. I'm surprised they haven't already taken the time to make digital copies of everything they have. When I was a draftsman at a big methanol processing plant near here 20 years ago we were going through the process of creating digital copies of all our drawings BACK THEN. If anything scanning everything and backing it up in a few locations would free up some space and lower the risk of losing information.

    The Pneumatic Howa chuck on this lathe is of particular interest as I want to make certain that is completely gone through and functioning perfectly before any material is loaded in the machine. The idea of having a 15+" diameter chunk of material coming out of the chuck whilst spinning is a little unsettling.

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  25. #79
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    I don't think you can get more beef for a given envelope than the last of the green Mori's. The mid to late 80's machines are just massive. I have a 1990 MV65B Mori vertical and the iron is crazy in that thing. You can take whatever 30HP cut through whatever you want and it won't be the rigidity that slows you down. There are 4 Y axis ways about 8" wide each. The Z ways are 4" by 2" to support the 3 ton headstock.

    The downside to the bigguns is the room to house them. I have a few machines that, by themselves, are probably bigger than many people's whole shops. They don't really earn proportionally more than the small ones either, but I get to have a "niche" I spose.

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    Good day everyone. Some progress on the MC800H:

    Working on the automatic tool changer arm assembly. Since it had been sitting the linear ways had surface corrosion and needed to be cleaned up.

    Before photos:

    20190929_173703.jpg

    20191005_233744.jpg

    20191005_233730.jpg

    20191005_233723.jpg

    20191005_233712.jpg


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