Contest for the most insane member (They will be a Maho owner) - Page 7
Close
Login to Your Account
Page 7 of 7 FirstFirst ... 567
Results 121 to 133 of 133
  1. #121
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Vienna Austria
    Posts
    286
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    104
    Likes (Received)
    91

    Default

    That machine has been a big time investment for you. Looking forward to seeing it running.
    Mark

  2. #122
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Petaluma CA 94952
    Posts
    559
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1
    Likes (Received)
    86

    Default

    I always wondered about that tool changer design on my DMU50V, as the tools drop straight down into the pockets. Not much clearance on some tools. Was the upper shoulder above the taper on the emuge toolholder larger than the hole in the tool changer disc?

    I bet you could sell a few of these to folks with the older DMU50's, especially in europe.

  3. #123
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Country
    CANADA
    State/Province
    Alberta
    Posts
    158
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    24
    Likes (Received)
    104

    Default

    Thanks for your feedback Mark (2x)

    I'll explain why the Uberchuck damages the carousel in my next post.

    The alignment procedure of the magazines as well as the spindle is a much longer process to do properly than I had thought, but worth it as now the entire sequence is pretty much silent. It required making an excel sheet to create average values for things like spindle orientation and retract values both of which are single machine constants but the machine has two carousels (This isn't noted in the procedure they recommend). Most of the other constants are carousel-specific. What makes adjusting the DMU tricky is the simple fact that if anything is slightly out the machine will use MAX FORCE when it moves and damage everything it can. Many machines use alternative motion devices, like air cylinders and proximity sensors for the ATC loading and unloading which makes misalignments pretty non-destructive. This is not the case with the DMU, MAX FORCE everywhere. Add to this the many steps it requires to start an ATC process, stop mid way, cancel the operation, change the switches the cabinet to still allow movement, override limits, etc etc just to get the machine to move in the ATC zone. If you do a spindle orientation (which you must without de-energizing the servos before confirming drive key alignment otherwise the spindle will simply turn out of alignment) and you are at the wrong Z point you will wipe out the proximity sensors on the carousels.... I didn't have it happen but it would be very easy to do! You need to do this AFTER having your first coffee of the day.

    Here is a photo of two stubby ER32 holders being used to find the center of each carousel pocket when in position.

    20200517_110640.jpg

    There isn't much vertical space to work with, the spindle is already at max height in the photo.

    As for making more of these, I would open to that after I'm done getting caught up on machining work that has been delayed from this latest move/paint/maintenance/repair episode that took much longer than I thought it was going to. Please PM me if interested, the greater visbility and clarity of the pocket number alone is worth it, I really disliked the OEM engraving.

    Getting the ATC setup on Maho Sr. will be easy now, I already translated the entire document that shows the procedure and it has better access than the 50V does, and it only has one place the spindle needs to be. Much of the adjustment on the MC800H is mechanical with the ATC arm (hydraulic cylinder actuated, which is clearly seen in photos I took when going through it a while ago), only the spindle position, orientation and magazine chain position are machine constant controlled.

    Both the DMU50 and MC800H were way out of proper adjustment, this is obvious by the markings on the MC800H and simply the sound of the DMU50V doing a tool change before.

    Here is a tip for anyone thinking of tackling the ATC on the DMU50V or 70V: Check the spindle concentricity values with the carousels while you still have the ATC covers off. That will save a lot of time.

  4. #124
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Country
    CANADA
    State/Province
    Alberta
    Posts
    158
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    24
    Likes (Received)
    104

    Default

    In regards to the Albrecht/Emuge APC/Uberchuck tool:

    sk_cat_dimensions.jpg

    If the tool looked like the tool in this first drawing it would be fine. They obviously have come up with an updated profile to allow for the necessary clearance for certain tool changers. Not all Cat40 machines will be affected by the original profile which is a better design if you can use it.

    slimline.jpg

    As highlighted, D3 is 50mm in diameter while...

    cat40_standard.jpg

    Cat 40 typical standard is 44.45mm (1.75"). That extra 5.5mm will break your cast iron carousel if you have a 24 tool DMU50V or DMU70V: It makes a loud noise in the process and will likely break the alignment spring pins too, as well as misalign your ATC with your spindle.

    20200527_120615.jpg

    My new carousels work great though while still preventing the tool from being inserted manually 180 degrees out in regards to the drive keys. More on Maho Sr to follow...

  5. Likes aarongough liked this post
  6. #125
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Country
    CANADA
    State/Province
    Alberta
    Posts
    158
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    24
    Likes (Received)
    104

    Default

    Just a small update on the MC800H:

    The pallet changer tapered pin gripper unit actuator pins, or at least that's what I'm calling them, are now being remade. I had some Thomson 60 case ground shafting brought in just for them as the OEM pins were worn, one was actually severely damaged...

    20200527_154729.jpg

    Like the metallic looking paste where it rides on needle bearings? Me too.

    Also, the APC area doors are back, most of the paneling and doors are already coated I'm just taking small loads from the coating facility so I can ensure the paint will not get any scuffs or scratches in transport:

    apc_doors.jpg

    (It was raining when they were brought in so I was just wiping them down with the towel on the one door)

    As with the Mori SL-6B and Maho Jr. the doors are white on inside to increase visibility and dark grey on the outside. I can confirm with Maho Jr. that the white on the inside really makes a big difference for brightness!

    The plastic letters that go on the doors are actually not in too bad of shape and I'll repair them and paint them to put them back on. I think if done properly they will look quite sharp! I think this is the last year they used such lettering on the machine as the later machines just used decals (Probably to save cost).

  7. Likes BugRobotics liked this post
  8. #126
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Country
    CANADA
    State/Province
    Ontario
    Posts
    1,445
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    991
    Likes (Received)
    1194

    Default

    Those APC doors look S.E.X.Y Nothing like nice parts with fresh powder-coat.

    The machine is going to look amazing when you're finished!

  9. #127
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Country
    CANADA
    State/Province
    Alberta
    Posts
    158
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    24
    Likes (Received)
    104

    Default

    Thanks for your feedback Aaron,

    Yeah having it all recoated by taking it apart takes much longer but the end result looks so nice and gives you the chance to catch all the little things that might be a current or future cause for problems once the machine is going again. I've caught enough problems on every machine I've done this to that I have no regrets taking the extra time, if anything now I can't do it any other way for fear there may be something hidden!

    Maybe it's better to say "The machine needs to be completely dismantled for maintenance and since I've gone to the effort anyway I get it recoated while I do it". The main purpose is function first, the coating is just a bonus since I'm doing so much work anyway.

    Also, just to clarify, this coating is Endura polyurethane which isn't technically powder coating but is a two-part sprayed-on-like-paint opposed to electrostatically applied and baked on like powder coating. I just want to make sure everyone knows in the event someone decides to do what I'm doing. It isn't cheap, it is actually very expensive but having done it myself before I have no problems paying someone else to do it and to pay such a price. It is a very good investment in my opinion.

    Here are some even closer up shots of that pin now that I've wiped it off:

    20200527_160921.jpg

    20200527_161017.jpg

    The wear is so bad, to have caught this problem when so many others had gone through this machine is a relief. The only way parts like this get caught is when assemblies are fully torn down solely for maintenance, like a power chuck or something. I have no doubt the pallet changer still worked and there would be no way to know this ticking time bomb was going to cause huge damage shortly. If that pin were to get worn too far that particular tapered lug of the pallet wouldn't release but the machine would think it did because it bases that feedback off the main hydraulic cylinder that pushes a ramped plate against these pins. Thankfully that plate isn't damaged and the wear is limited to these pins and the needle bearings they ride in, all of which are being replaced.

    ...actually I'll just make a correction...

    I just took a close look at the pallet changer base. It has damage on it and I thought it was from a previous crash... it isn't. The damage is from that pin not letting the pallet go on that lug. Because that lug wouldn't come out it managed to pull the one opposite of it furthest away from the lifting mechanism and levered the pin against the casting, breaking away a large chunk on that boss while breaking a little material away on the hole that was held down. DMG has already said they don't think the damage will affect the machine much but I'm going to have to spend some time figuring out exactly what can be done to make sure everything is in alignment again, and held as firmly as orginally intended. If I could get a replacement for that large cast part I would but the only way I can get one is off another MC600 or MC800 that is being parted out, though it is shared with the 4 axis machines so it is much more common relatively than the trunnion MC800H. It probably isn't necessary though, it is good to know why that damage happened... it is obvious from the markings this is exactly what occurred.

  10. #128
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    4,899
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    5308
    Likes (Received)
    2520

    Default

    When I tear the sheetmetal off a machine I send it in all it's greasy chip covered glory to a cheap blaster/powdercoater. The last machine I did was a fullsize pickup bed plus an 8x20 deck trailer filled with the nasty enclosure and doors. They did it all for $600 in white and dark gray. Only thing I did was pound some big dents out and weld up all the cracks in the doors. Very worth it for me.

  11. #129
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Country
    CANADA
    State/Province
    Alberta
    Posts
    158
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    24
    Likes (Received)
    104

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Garwood View Post
    ...I send it in all it's greasy chip covered glory to a cheap blaster/powdercoater.
    Totally, this is the other major benefit is the cleaning aspect it. Even if you did want to spend the time trying to get it clean the paint is in such poor shape it wouldn't look great despite being clean. Doing it this way serves many functions.

    I can't believe the price you are getting your work done for, granted my work is done in Canadian dollars which are worth much less than American these days but even still that is a fraction of what I'm paying. I have been taking quite a bit of metal to them though and some of it is small parts that I know from when I did it take a long time to put clean and hang up to spray, etc etc.

    It would be interesting to compare the area to cost ratio of what your getting done to the guys doing mine, I have a feeling your still getting a better deal. I'm not sure which handles heat better powdercoating or urethane... time will tell on mine to see how it holds up. What I have now is much better than OEM, that much I've already been able to determine.

    Lastly I pretty much did the same thing taking out dents and everything prior to sending it over. Sometimes I had to get creative with large aluminum plates and old railroad ties as vertical "battering rams" to get dents to go flat without leaving any evidence of the event. It worked out much better than I expected! I was having problems with the sandblasters warping the sheet metal at first but thankfully that seems to be a thing of the past.

    Today I'm milling some stainless parts and doing a grand prix engine swap for a client so no time to work on the machines, but more will come soon! Thanks Garwood for your post.

    In addition to design and machining I have some slick 3D scanning equipment that really helps for these sort of projects!

    150_initial_position.jpg

  12. #130
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    4,899
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    5308
    Likes (Received)
    2520

    Default

    I've used many powdercoaters and one of them has a "quote guy" that seems to base his prices off how much time you spend BSing him. They don't do great work, but for machine enclosures it is a reasonable option.

    I try to do most of my products black oxide or type 3 ano, but when I need to powdercoat stuff that must look good up close I use a good shop just down the road from me and I sometimes feel I pay too much. I like the owner though and he sends machinework my way so it works out.

    Keep up the good work. I hope it pays off in spades when you let her rip.

  13. #131
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Country
    CANADA
    State/Province
    Alberta
    Posts
    158
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    24
    Likes (Received)
    104

    Default

    Hello again everyone. Well I've completed many more hours of research into the subject of the VME Based CNC control itself.

    Here are some highlights:

    The VMEbus itself has been quite standardized and has also been designed to be forward and backward compatibility to keep things easier for industrial and military applications where upgrading all of the system would be quite cost prohibitive, including software developed for such systems.

    Some of the boards I've considered purchasing have support packages for DOS so the board will still have as much functionality as possible while being run via DOS.

    Many of the boards no longer have RS422 and some don't have the ability to switch to RS485 either. In my case I need at least one RS422 port that can have it's address made to be the same as the original config so the "CNet" that is connected to the KIC modules that control the CNC panels still function. The EXM module that was used to accomplish this on the original setup has since been phased out and now there is a "PMC" type of port that such a board can be acquired to fill this purpose, theoretically.

    I would like to talk more with anyone that reads this that has more experience with the industrial VME SBC units before I start spending quite a bit of money. I've read the thoughts that the improvements on the machine's real-world performance will likely be slim to none but we'll see.

    Please post here or PM me if you have a moment to discuss some finer details on this subject.

  14. #132
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    825
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    3
    Likes (Received)
    101

    Default

    I do have some experience with fixing the Millplus control. Right now I do have a 1996 DMU millplus with a controlproblem (Z50) which I thought it would be an easy fix but I was wrong. Used to have somebody with great knowledge of these controls but sadly he passed away. So now no support or knowledge anymore....Have to admid I am not a real computer-guru but I know how to fix machines. But if you lack info and / or software it might get an impossible repair.

    My hat off if you succeed your plans.

  15. #133
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Country
    CANADA
    State/Province
    Alberta
    Posts
    158
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    24
    Likes (Received)
    104

    Default

    Hello everyone, this will be a quick post. I decided for now to get some faster upgrade processors for now and keep with the existing CPU boards. This is the most for the least at this point and I'm told this gains about double in processor performance over stock (4x multiplier instead of 2x). I have come across some more machines that may have controls that would be great to retrofit on the Maho machines if more speed is needed, we'll see.

    So for the last little while I've been putting a bunch of effort into cleaning and actually installing parts back on the machine. The progress is small but it is still progress.

    First, I've been getting more parts back from paint. This is most the painted paneling:

    20200604_190409.jpg

    And this is the ATC gearbox cleaned and mounted:

    ...and fail.

    Ugh... for some reason I cannot upload more than one photo in this message on my laptop. The rest of this update will have to wait until I'm on the desktop.

  16. Likes Panza liked this post

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •