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  1. #361
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    Turns out the MAHO wiring diagram is incorrect with respect to the glass scale encoder A/D signal processors - the Heidenhain EXE.

    My MAHO has Heidenhain LS403 scales, , and the wiring diagram shows only +5V for the Heindenhain EXE, but my 229 281 01 model EXE also has +12V test points on the circuit board. The color coding of the output signal wires on the MAHO wiring diagram was also incorrect.

    Here is the correct pinout.
    +12V - Red
    +5V - Brown
    0V - White
    A - Green
    B - Blue
    Z - Grey [though this need confirmation]

    MAHO 4��E LinuxCNC retrofit, first glass scale read out. - YouTube
    Mark

  2. #362
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    Wiring the MAHO 28A1 relay panel into the Mesa 7i84 is now done.

    pb140064.jpg

    pb140063.jpg

    pb140066.jpg
    Mark

  3. #363
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    Turns out I had to redo the ribbon cable wiring onto the 7i84. I'd counted pin numbers as wire number, which doesn't work on a two row pin head connector.

    The problem with the machine not latching on tuned out to be an intermittent contact on one of the plug in screw connectors along the lower edge of the relay panel. Now that it is latching on, I can move on to getting the Indramat connected and the PID tuning sorted.
    Mark

  4. #364
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    Since the question of replacing the old CRT monitor with a TFT display comes up frequently, a friend in Germany send me his experience. He used the ACV-001 chinese CGA/VGA convertor or doubler from Ebay. He couldn't get to work with an NEC monitor from 2000, but a Samsung Snymaster from 2004 works perfectly.

    The pinout:
    Option one, connecting directly to the Graphics card in the control cabinet.
    Cable from the WEi-YA ACV-011 to the Philips 432/10 Graphics card.

    D-SUB 9 PIN Connector ACV-011 CGA Input 2 Sync. Separate !
    1 -----------------------------GND DC Jack / 0V -------------------4
    2 -----------------------------Green -------------------------2
    3 Unused
    4 -------------------------------Sync. Vertical ------------------6
    5 12V DC to power monitor ----------------------------------- DC Jack
    6 ----------------------------Synchr. Horiz ----------------------5
    7 -------------------------------Red -------------------------1
    8 Unused
    9 --------------------------------Blue -----------------------3


    Option 2, connecting to the original cable in der Maho user station:
    D-Sub 9 pin connector on ACV-11 D-Sub 15 pin connector in user station
    1 ----------------------------- GND / 0V ----------------------------- 3
    2 -----------------------------Green -----------------------------4
    3 Unused
    4 -------------------------------Syncr. Vertical ----------------------11
    5 Unused
    6 ----------------------------Synchr. Horiz --------------------------- 13
    7 -------------------------------Red ------------------------------- 6
    8 Unused
    9 --------------------------------Blue ----------------------------- 2

    Mark

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  6. #365
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    On My MAHO, I've been working on the new user interface module. Self fixturing laser cut panels sure make welding it up easier.
    pc250338.jpg

    Just working on the painting now.
    pc260341.jpg

    For the buttons, I'll 3D print them, and mount them using some more lasered parts.
    pc260344.jpg

    On the LinuxCNC forum, John has been working on the classic ladder gearbox control for his MAHO 600E.
    pc260345.jpg
    Mark

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  8. #366
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    Hi all!
    I'm new here. I have a Maho 400E milling machine. And you guessed it... I have a problem... Maybe we can solve it together...

    I have had the mill for a few months now and it has been working very well. Now however I have a very irritating problem with the z-axis ( and then I mean the axis moving the table up and down).

    The motor oscillates now and then. It happens more and more often I think. Now I cannot use the machine because of the oscillations.

    I recorded a film of the problem....

    Video showing the problem

    So the z-motor oscillates very often but not always. I have cleaned the glass scale. I used a rag with ethanol and pushed it into the scale.... I also removed the motor and checked the coals of the tachometer. The looked good.... I tried to put some tension on the belt. I have however no idea of how much force to use...

    I do not know what next step would be. My guess is that the problem is either in the glass scale, the servo motor or in the servo motor driver.... Any suggestion on how to proceed?

    /Kammlake

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    Wish I had the exact answer to your problem, but I do not know.what it is. There are many possibles I can think of ,such as loose wire or terminal connector - wrong type of lub oil and or plugged oil line to Z axis - scale and or scale read head issues (a plain old rag for cleaning can leave unwanted lint ,also I do not think those scales are available any more so be very careful ) - Z axis brake issues - electrolytic capacitor failure - etc.
    What electronic test equipment do you have available ? A good answer would include such items as a good volt/ohm meter and a real oscilloscope. You do have a complete set of manuals and correct schematic plus the machine parameters for that machines serial number ? Please say yes.
    For belt tension , try referencing " Gates " for their engineering recommendation. May be a Gates HTD series belt. You should check the machines Z axis existing belt number. When the movie was showing the Z axis belt, I thought the noise was strange and am wondering if the thrust bearing is ok. When the machine was shipped to you was the table blocked up for shipping or left to hammer the ball screw into the thrust bearing ? What is the sound of the X axis moving ,fore comparison.

    Any chance you could get some pictures or movie showing the inside of electrical cabinet ? Please and hopefully thank you.

    Still hoping ABBA will make a come back,soon.

  10. #368
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    Wish I had the exact answer to your problem, but I do not know.what it is. There are many possibles I can think of ,such as loose wire or terminal connector - wrong type of lub oil and or plugged oil line to Z axis - scale and or scale read head issues (a plain old rag for cleaning can leave unwanted lint ,also I do not think those scales are available any more so be very careful ) - Z axis brake issues - electrolytic capacitor failure - etc.

    What electronic test equipment do you have available ? A good answer would include such items as a good volt/ohm meter and a real oscilloscope. You do have a complete set of manuals and correct schematic plus the machine parameters for that machines serial number ? Please say yes.

    For belt tension , try referencing " Gates " for their engineering recommendation. May be a Gates HTD series belt. You should check the machines Z axis existing belt number. When the movie was showing the Z axis belt, I thought the noise was strange and am wondering if the thrust bearing is ok.
    When the machine was shipped to you was the table blocked up for shipping or left to hammer the ball screw into the thrust bearing ? What is the sound of the X axis moving ,fore comparison.

    Any chance you could get some pictures or movie showing the inside of electrical cabinet ? Please and hopefully thank you.

    Still hoping ABBA will make a come back,soon.


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    Hi!
    Thanks for the response!

    I do have quite a lot of documentation. If it's complete I do not know but I have electric schematic. Also the parameters in some different places. I think the machine was upgraded or something because there is printouts of new slightly different parameters. (I downloaded the parameters when I got the machine).

    Books

    I have access to both oscilloscope and multimeter. That part is no problem... to know where to measure is more problematic. What do you have in mind? Tacho signals?

    The table was not supported during shipping... I was however there and I drove a car in front of the truck while moving it 15km to my shop... I think it was a quite smooth drive...

    When I removed the motor the table started to accelerate down after a few seconds. I got the impression it was mooving quite free but I do not remember really. I was busy trying to slow down the table before hitting the bottom...

    I recorded a movie from the cabinet and when moving x and z axis. Also took some pictures...

    Video

    IMG_21828_23228.jpg - Google Drive
    IMG_21828_232518.jpg - Google Drive
    IMG_21828_232527.jpg - Google Drive
    https://drive.google.com/open?id=1dT...1j52NU6oXhGUTG
    https://drive.google.com/open?id=19f...Ya5A2HncCSUFxn
    https://drive.google.com/open?id=19V...7-x9Ng_9JcWwIm

    And a last one... https://www.instagram.com/explore/ta...rf%C3%B6renas/


    /Kammlake

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    Hello!
    Nice to get an ABBA fan on board!

    I do have access to oscilloscope / multimeter etc. That part is no problem. Bigger problem is to know where to measure.... Also I think I have a quite complete documentation...

    IMG_21828_232852.jpg - Google Drive

    The table was not blocked when it was shipped to me. I however drove in front of the truck providing directions (and making sure he drove nice and slow...). I suppose it still could be beaten up. Hard to know what happened last time it was shipped... However, the machine did work in the beginning. I think the sound of the z-axis always been a bit louder though. See the following film for axis sound. It starts with some shots of the electrical cabinet.

    inside the cabinet.wmv - Google Drive

    And some pictures.

    IMG_21828_23228.jpg - Google Drive
    IMG_21828_232144.jpg - Google Drive
    IMG_21828_232518.jpg - Google Drive
    https://drive.google.com/open?id=11G...Bk-G-hOPV0KApE
    https://drive.google.com/open?id=1dT...1j52NU6oXhGUTG
    https://drive.google.com/open?id=19f...Ya5A2HncCSUFxn

    When it comes to using the oscilloscope. What do you have in mind? Measuring the tacho and motor signals I suppose?

    /Kammlake

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    Hi again!
    I took out the motor and measured the tachometer signal to check if it was ok. I think it is. Only thing I can think of is that the tachometer is rotating when stoped abruptly. Besides that possibility I think it is ok. Every forth pulse is somewhat shorter than the other pulses. I do not think that matters (?).

    Attached is some pictures of my test setup.











    These are the tachometer signals. In the first picture I go by 3 different speeds. Min level is changed when speed is changed.



    Looks ok I think. Every 4th pulse is somewhat shorter.




    I am now checking out the ballscrew end... Problem is that I think it looks good... There is a friction coupling in the z axis belt wheel. I found instructions in the manual of how to control that correct tension is applied. I will try to check that...



    /Kammlake

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    Hi again! I just got explained that the tachometer works as a gernerator and gives an analog voltage out (after filtration). I redid my test without pull-up resistor (as I used figuring it worked in another manner). The result shows that I get an analog voltage out... at least after some filtering...

    Still I think the thaco works... if it is not comming lose during abrupt deaccelerations...

    The picture below shows the tacho-voltage when I run it up and down in speed with the drilling machine. The pulses are now gaps. Because of my missunderstanding I tested in a way before so that the gaps instead was pulses....



    Still looking for the problem...

    /Kammlake

  15. #373
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    Wow! I have never seen any Maho MH ??? E? machine that complete and clean and with documentation. The electrical cabinet has all of the wire trough covers,even has the machine parameter tape in it's container. The hydraulic pump and lub oil pump plastic containers are clear and clean. The paint appears to be in very good shape . Just Wow! Would not surprise me if you also had the over arm support and a slotting head .
    What is the build year of your machine? My guess would be late 1980s .

    Question - The top outside rear of the electrical cabinet has some devices mounted there. Am wondering what they are ?
    That (6 Volt ) sealed / gel cell battery sitting on top of the computer makes me nervous. I put mine in a plastic container resting on the cabinet floor.
    But that is just me being a worry wart .

    The Z axis problem.---
    For reference,the MH600E machine Z axis servo motor has a built in brake and also the tach. When the servo drive is energized during machine start/power up ,it releases and maintains a release of the brake (24 ? volt to the brake coil). No power to coil means the brake is holding the belt from turning which keeps the Z axis belt pulley/overr load clutch from turning the Z axis ball screw . The servo motor tach/tacho feeds back a voltage to the 3TRM2 Indramat servo motor drive.
    If I remember correctly ( big if ) the computer does not get a direct feed back of the motor tach voltage but relies on the Heidehan scales via the Exe board for position and rate of axis change. . So if the machine is on and there is no computer input for the axis to move it is the indramat drive that maintains servo motor-axis position . If the drive tuning is such that the axis drifts,the computer via scale position change will cause or effect a axis error correction if the current machine parameter/constants for that error is exceeded . Axis movement beyond the current machine parameters/constants shoud case a machine stop. Lots of rabbet holes here!
    Do you have a manual for the 3TRM2 Indramat servo motor drive ? All 3 servos tach signals go back to the 3TRM2 drive. Would be a good place ,using a O-scope ,to compare
    one axis signal to the others tach signal. Can also look at the +10 -10 volt servo command move signal. Is the signal steady/constant during a jog command? Is the Z axis +10 -!0 signal changing if only the X axis is being joged?



    The hand control should not cause any action ( Emeg Off button is a exception ) unless the side switch/button is pressed and maintained. What happens if you jog the X or Z axis via the control console ? Wondering if the side buttons on the hand control are hanging up . My guess is your hand control wiring goes into the electrical cabinet bottom about where the manuals are on the right hand side.
    My thought is to shut off the power and use a ohm meter to check if the hand control side buttons are causing a problem . Can also check the hand control jog buttons wires too. Those wires enter the cabinet and go to a terminal strip. Would be a good time to go over all those terminal strip screw connections . Watch the ohm meter and flex the wire at the hand control ,then flex the wire where it inters the cabinet. Might even loosen the wire clamp at the cabinet and shove the wire into the cabinet to see the area that was at the clamp . You are looking for outside insulation marks that might indicate internal damage to one or more of the small internal wires. For checking wires , I still prefer the analog meters as I think their needle response is easier to judge a small change of ohms If there are no good results of looking for hand control switch/button an wire issues try reseating the connector plug at the computer .
    The console keyboard wires and hand control wires connect (looking at your 2nd movie) at the first board on left side of the computer . One connector is pluged into
    the other connector which then plugs into the board connector socket.

    Am very impressed with your electronic lab.

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    Hi again!
    Glad that you like my machine! Yes it is indeed in pretty good shape... I do not have the over arm nor the slotting head though... As I am writing I could not find a manufacturing date but on a printout of the machine constants it says "creation date 1988, modified: 1990".

    The electrical devices mounted on the cabinet serves two purposes. There is one timer that simply shuts down the machine after a selected ammount of hours. I suppose someone wanted to start a big work on friday afternoon but didn't want the machine to be turned on for the whole weekend... The second is a timer for chip blowing. Schematics are updated with the modifications which is nice.

    You are right about the battery. Will put it in a bag on the bottom of the cabinet!

    Regarding the z-axis problem. I now think the problem is the tachometer. I have not had the time to compare tachometer signals as you suggest. Will however do that. I got hold of the manual of the motor and it states a maximum ripple of a few percent on the tachometer output. When I turn the motor slowly up and down It becomes very ovious that the tachometer signal is interrupted. I first thought the pulses visible was ok but I now think it is not... A measurement as you suggest to compare tacho-signals will probably confirm this... But I have been wrong a number of times before regarding the tacho-signals so should be interesting to see the result.....

    The tacho signals looks like this when turning by hand up and down in speed. (for some reason not included in the last post).



    Regarding the control I think you are right in how you describe the use of the scales and the tachometer together... From the beginning I really thought that the tachometer sent out pulses in ralation to angular position.... but it is analog values that are outputted.

    I did not had the 3TRM2 drive but thanks for pointing me in that direciont. I found it quite easily on the web...

    I think my hand control has been "hacked". Will open it up an have a look. My theory is that someone got tired of holding down the side buttons and shorted them... Will check them out.



    So if it now is the tachometer that is broken... I measured on the poles and I get 4 position each turn where signals are missed. I wonder how to fix the problem. If a coil winding has burned that is not an easy thing to fix.... I might need to replace it with som other stuff...

    Glad you like my electronics lab! It sure is handy to have from time to time...

    /Kammlake

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  18. #375
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    I am suprised that MAHO did the control cabinet on yours so differently than most 400E, moving the Indramat onto the cabinet door, and rearranging the relay panel.

    Have you tried unplugging the Phillips, and jumping the Indramat on signal to see is the Indramat's velocity control loop is stable with out the phillips position control loop? On mine, the indramat alone holds the axis's rock steady.

    There was a long thread on the German language forum years ago from Nick Müller who was chasing tuning and stablity issues on his Z axis of an MH 700, which he eventually isolated to the ball screw end bearings.
    Mark

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  20. #376
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    Looking at the 1st movie (2-5-2018 with these tired old eyes ) I thought the control counsel had a Deckel Maho label on it. As I have been lead to believe, at the merger of Deckel Maho ( late 1980s ) there was a change of which models were to be developed/continued . I think the MH400E & MH500E & others were discontinued.. I was not there and am only going on what I have read. This was before they merged with Guildmister sp .
    Kammlake wrote his machine seems to be of 1988 vintage. To me this would mean it might represent the latest an greatest of that design. Sure would be interesting to see a Pdf of his machines schematics & current machine constants along with the machines punched tape constants plus good photos of the Heidenhain Exe board.
    But this is not helping Kammlake Fix his MAHO .

    When I watched his 1st movie , it seemed to me the hand control might be sending a intermittent Z axis jog signal . Hence the question of if the machine is running a program ,is there unprogrammed - intermittent movement in the Z axis ? He has never noted the machine stopping and giving a fault code. So to me the machine thinks it is getting a jog Z signal, from the hand control circuit or maybe the console key pad . The keys are just a carbon pad touching a copper circuit board trace. Remember the old hand calculators keys when a soft drink was spilled on them.

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    Hi!
    I have had some days of vacation which this time has meant going ice skating with the kids etc. instead of beeing in the man cave... However, I managed to bolt the motor to the CNC and measured on the 3TRM2 as suggested. As I suspected the x-axis do not have these spikes / pulse content that the z-axis have at all...

    I pulled out the tacho anchor (according to instructions i found in the service manual). There is 32 ohms between all adjacent poles except in about 4 places. I think this is the problem. I cleaned out the anchour and polished the poles. Also I inspected visually with my microscope to see if I could find any problem. This did not help...

    I suppose I need to replace the anchor with another one or replace the whole tachometer with something equivalent.

    Regarding the hand control I have not yet checked it...
    Regarding if the problem is there when running a program rather than had jogging. Yes it is still there when running programs. However, in the beginning of this problem I could get the problem to dissapear after running a warm-up program for some time. Now that doesn't work anymore... I suppose it was some bad connection that was getting better when the motor heated up...


    Nice to read comments about my machine. I do have the machine constants downloaded. They are however not representing the original constants. I have some printouts with handwriting on where it says "machine parameters for the new processor, 6701/703 OW 930629". Also I have an old part list. I think it is listing some things that was part of this "upgrade". See picture below...

    I can scan the schematic and take a photo of the exe board if you want. By the way... where is that located :-)


    Some pictures:

    X-axis tacho signal looks good...


    X-signal and z signal at the same time making similar move but in opposite directions. Z is the messed up signal...



    Removing the ancor


    Before cleaning:


    Stückliste




    /Kammlake

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    Hi!
    I have had some days of vacation which this time has meant going ice skating with the kids etc. instead of beeing in the man cave... However, I managed to bolt the motor to the CNC and measured on the 3TRM2 as suggested. As I suspected the x-axis do not have these spikes / pulse content that the z-axis have at all...

    I pulled out the tacho anchor (according to instructions i found in the service manual). There is 32 ohms between all adjacent poles except in about 4 places. I think this is the problem. I cleaned out the anchour and polished the poles. Also I inspected visually with my microscope to see if I could find any problem. This did not help...

    I suppose I need to replace the anchor with another one or replace the whole tachometer with something equivalent.

    Regarding the hand control I have not yet checked it...
    Regarding if the problem is there when running a program rather than had jogging. Yes it is still there when running programs. However, in the beginning of this problem I could get the problem to dissapear after running a warm-up program for some time. Now that doesn't work anymore... I suppose it was some bad connection that was getting better when the motor heated up...


    Nice to read comments about my machine. I do have the machine constants downloaded. They are however not representing the original constants. I have some printouts with handwriting on where it says "machine parameters for the new processor, 6701/703 OW 930629". Also I have an old part list. I think it is listing some things that was part of this "upgrade". See picture below...

    I can scan the schematic and take a photo of the exe board if you want. By the way... where is that located :-)


    Some pictures:

    X-axis tacho signal looks good...


    X-signal and z signal at the same time making similar move but in opposite directions. Z is the messed up signal...



    Removing the ancor


    Before cleaning:


    Stückliste




    /Kammlake

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    Repost the picture part since there seems to be a problem in the previous post...

    Some pictures:

    X-axis tacho signal looks good...
    IMG_218214_131838.jpg - Google Drive

    X-signal and z signal at the same time making similar move but in opposite directions. Z is the messed up signal...
    scope_1.png - Google Drive

    Removing the ancor
    IMG_218213_233255.jpg - Google Drive

    Before cleaning:
    IMG_218213_233449.jpg - Google Drive

    Stückliste
    IMG_218216_213815.jpg - Google Drive

    /Kammlake

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    Your fill port screen filter on your lube pump appears to have fallen into your lubricator sump...


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