Mori Seiki TV-30 won't cycle-start in memory mode
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    Question Mori Seiki TV-30 won't cycle-start in memory mode

    Hello all,


    I've got a Mori Seiki TV-30 drill and tap center (MSC-802m control) that lost absolute zero due to battery voltage drop to the servo amps. This gave me alarm Z70 ABS. ILLEGAL XYZ which made the machine pretty much unusable. I called Mori Seiki and was able to get a hold of the zero-point initialization procedure which re-established machine zero and removed the Z70 ABS. ILLEGAL XYZ error. I'm aware that I'll probably need to order a new battery.

    However...

    Ever since re-initializing zero, I am unable to cycle-start programs in auto (memory) mode. Code will only execute in MDI mode, which makes things inconvenient for obvious reasons. The green light never comes on when I go to cycle-start in auto mode. I currently have errors Z73 ABS. WARNING 0001 XYZ and S52 SERVO WARNING 009F Z, but according to the manual these are just warning about the battery voltage being low. Could these errors potentially be inhibiting cycle start? Something in the ladder logic that explains this? I don't want to order a 350 dollar battery just to be stuck with the same issue. Anyone with experience with these rare machines, I would gladly send beer money for the assistance.


    Thanks,
    -Mike

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    When I get back to my shop tonight, I'll look up your alarms and see what is up. I have a TV30 also and know my way around pretty well.

    If you know how to solder, you can do your own batteries for cheap. Let me know if you can solder and I'll get you a link to a place to get the cells for the battery module.

    Also, in the future, post qweries in the CNC forum. There are many more folks there that might have answers than the tiny group that pop in here.

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    Had a quick look at the ladder. Cycle Start OK1 (M845) is false when ER&ALM (M1833) is true unless MDISOK (M1050) is true in which case Cycle Start OK1 (M845) will be true.

    That would explain why Cycle Start will not operate in Auto mode when there is an error condition on the CNC but will function when MDI is selected.


    The battery module for backing up the encoders uses 4 of these cells.

    3.6V AA SIZE BATTERY W/LEADS | All Electronics Corp.

    There are 2 other locations in the control that use the same cell. One is on the control board in the back electrical cabinet. That cell retains your parameters, programs, and other CNC data. The other location is in the operator panel cabinet. It retains the Dialog programming data, the GOP (touchscreen) parameters and dialog parameters.

    The low battery warning for both those batteries is a little symbol that pops up on the screen. No alarm message is displayed when they get low and many folks have run them until the batteries die and lose all the parameters and other data. This is a very time consuming recovery if you only have hard copy backups. Pretty easy if you have digital backups on RS232 and simple if you have backups on a memory card.

    Make sure you have all your data backed up before doing any battery change. The GOP parameters must be written down (or snap a pic of each screen). Dialog data (if you use Dialog Programming) and Dialog parameters must also be written down. There is a menu function that is supposed to let one save the Dialog data and parameters to a memory card. On my control it always reports back a card error if there is any other data on the card so I do not use that since all my other data is backed up there.

    Theoretically you have ~30 minutes or so to change the battery with the power off and not lose the parameters and data as the data is retained by capacitor power for that long. Since these controls are 20+ years old now and capacitors typically lose capacity over time, I do not trust that and change them only with the power on.

    Hope this helps you get going. If you need more help, post in the main CNC Machining forum since I come to this sub-forum infrequently.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vancbiker View Post
    Had a quick look at the ladder. Cycle Start OK1 (M845) is false when ER&ALM (M1833) is true unless MDISOK (M1050) is true in which case Cycle Start OK1 (M845) will be true.

    That would explain why Cycle Start will not operate in Auto mode when there is an error condition on the CNC but will function when MDI is selected.


    The battery module for backing up the encoders uses 4 of these cells.

    3.6V AA SIZE BATTERY W/LEADS | All Electronics Corp.

    There are 2 other locations in the control that use the same cell. One is on the control board in the back electrical cabinet. That cell retains your parameters, programs, and other CNC data. The other location is in the operator panel cabinet. It retains the Dialog programming data, the GOP (touchscreen) parameters and dialog parameters.

    The low battery warning for both those batteries is a little symbol that pops up on the screen. No alarm message is displayed when they get low and many folks have run them until the batteries die and lose all the parameters and other data. This is a very time consuming recovery if you only have hard copy backups. Pretty easy if you have digital backups on RS232 and simple if you have backups on a memory card.

    Make sure you have all your data backed up before doing any battery change. The GOP parameters must be written down (or snap a pic of each screen). Dialog data (if you use Dialog Programming) and Dialog parameters must also be written down. There is a menu function that is supposed to let one save the Dialog data and parameters to a memory card. On my control it always reports back a card error if there is any other data on the card so I do not use that since all my other data is backed up there.

    Theoretically you have ~30 minutes or so to change the battery with the power off and not lose the parameters and data as the data is retained by capacitor power for that long. Since these controls are 20+ years old now and capacitors typically lose capacity over time, I do not trust that and change them only with the power on.

    Hope this helps you get going. If you need more help, post in the main CNC Machining forum since I come to this sub-forum infrequently.
    Vancbiker,


    Thank you so much for the wealth of info and your effort in assisting. I ended up getting an electrician friend to resolder fresh 3.6v cells to the 'battery' board which ended up resolving my issues completely. Fortunately he did all of it with mains power still supplied. Had I known earlier I would have taken the necessary precautions. At any rate I am able to once again run programs from auto mode.

    I also appreciate the detailed info in regards to the logic behind the behavior of the invalidation as I'm not familiar with ladder logic diagrams, only the concept.

    I'll take your suggestion of posting in the main cnc sub forum; most certainly want to reach as many eyes as possible. As a matter of fact I'll be posting something in regards to a separate issue with the machine shortly.


    Best regards,
    -Mike


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