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MV-35 Troubleshooting

pri0ritize

Aluminum
Joined
Mar 3, 2014
Location
Poulsbo, WA
So, I've been posting a lot recently asking questions about getting my new (to me) MV-35 up and running and I've run into some issues I was hoping someone might be able to help me with. Currently I've got the X and Y axis able to move when in the emergency release mode but not the Z. In the back cabinet the NF6 breaker pops on power up, I assumed that it was possible that I had the phases backwards and it was the hydraulic pump popping that breaker but I swapped phases and had no luck. From what I understand of the machine hydraulics should come on when I turn the control on, and that is not happening, currently sitting at zero PSI and there is also no power to the lube pump (or all the lights are burnt out). Anyone have an idea of why that breaker may be popping? I get a 49 Error - Machine Op Not Ready on control startup which flashes and kicks me to the tool input screen. Not sure why that is. The description of the alarm in the manual is De-energized magnet switch MS2 and MS6 in the electric control board.
 
An update and another request for help.

Was troubleshooting more yesterday after work and went to turn the machine one, everything seemed normal, both power supply lights turned on and the fans fired up as expected. Still no hydraulics but the no-fuse breaker was still popped so I expected that. I then went to try and turn the control on and was greeted with a black screen. The CRT itself powers on but it appears that no video is output to it.

After doing a bit more searching it appears that one of the transformers in the bottom of the control cabinet was wired for 200V and I supplied it 240V. I swapped the legs over on the transformer and checked the output voltage before connecting the outputs back up and all looks good. I reset the NF6 fuse breaker on the door and it still popped on power-up...so much for finding the solution.

So, now I've got a fuse breaker that won't stop popping and a control that won't turn on. The two yellow boxes in the back cabinet (Output and Input Modules - OD64B and ID64B) are both not powered (no green LED's on the front). I'm wondering if the power supply was damaged by the voltage being too high but all the fuses check fine currently. Does anyone else have any idea of where I should look?

Thanks.
 
Do you have the electrical diagrams. What is NF6 feeding. I also hope you have at least a basic multimeter?

I've got a multimeter, oscilloscope and access to pretty much any test equipment I'd need. I have the manuals, but they don't appear to have much in the way of schematics unfortunately. I know NF6 is feeding a solenoid hooked to the drawbar (at least that's what I assume 'pull-stud' is referencing in the manual) but I don't know what else it is powering. I also believe it is powering something that is a precursor to the hydraulics and lube pump, as they aren't kicking on when expected.
 
Thanks a ton, that was my thought as well but I'm not certain if it's the black heatsink box next to the input and output modules. I'm also not certain of the logic (24v supplied constantly or if it's supplied after powerup.)
 
I'll have to take a look at it tomorrow to figure out the power supply. MS2 is the motor starter for the hydraulics and MS6 is the motor starter for the lube pump. They both work currently, but they don't turn on currently...which I assume is because of the NF6 nfb popping. Thanks a ton for the help!
 
Well did you have power on the outlet terminals of the contactor? Hydraulic pump should start. You can manually operate the contactor to turn the hydraulics on to check pump rotation then reverse the phasing if it's backwards. If you still can't get the pump to start pull the J box on the motor and ohm the motor out. Also I'm sure you know this I would hope but don't just go operating the contactor with your finger use a insulated device such as a screwdriver with an insulated handle. If the pump does not start manually then you have a control circuitry issue.
 
I did not check if I have have voltage applied to the contactor. I did test the contactor previously and ensured that the hydraulics and coolant pump were operational and spinning in the correct direction.

It is possible the coil on the contactor is bad but I haven't tested that (I've lost a couple of those on other machines). I think I'll probably just have to start digging into the NF6 circuit and determine what it is powering. I think I should also test the current that is being drawn through that breaker to determine if it's just over the limit or if it's a short as it's possible the breaker could be bad and tripping early.

I'm hoping I can get a chance to do some quick troubleshooting tonight. I know for certain that one of the solenoids on the side of the machine that controls the draw-bar is powered through the NF-6 circuit but beyond that I have no clue.
 
Sounds like your on the right track. Takes two seconds to ohm the coil on the contactor thru A1 to A2. I would check for power thru the coil first as it sounds like it's not being commanded on. An electrical diagram would be best to acquire. It sounds like you still have a power supply issue. Figuring out what the NF6 powers would be a good start.

Also on another note if the MV35-40 is like the MV55 or larger it may have a couple of solenoids above the electrical cabinet and can make a mess of the electrical cabinet if the o rings start to leak. I would keep an eye on that.
 
I've finally had some time to get parts and get to working on the MV35 again. I popped a power supply but I have that all fixed and in place. The control is back to starting up properly, I'm able to move all three axes in the 'emergency mode' but NF6 is still popping, It's a 5A breaker and it's currently pulling 9A on startup. It also takes approximately 5ish seconds to pop.

I've traced the NF6 circuit to a bridge rectifier, but haven't been able to go much farther than that, it's a 5V circuit (I assume) and there is currently just under 6V on the circuit. I'm considering trying a new breaker but the breaker seems to be operating correctly to me.

Anyone else have any ideas?
 
I've been looking for an electrical diagram book for the MV-35 but can only find the schematics for the MV-45...does anyone know if they are similar?
 
I have an MV-45 1982ish with a 6MB Fanuc. I've been having similar issues with it lately. It has been eating control power supplies and all the boards check out fine.

I need to spend some time digging through everything that is connected to the DC power unit and isolate what is causing the issue.

If your MV-35 has the hydraulic side arm toolchanger I would bet it's very similar to the MV-45 electrically. However, all the electrical and parts books I have for mine cover the MV-45/40, MV-45/45 and MV-55, but there is no mention of the MV-35. Mine is the MV-45/45. I have seen some MV-jr machines that look sort of similar at first glance, but they are vastly different and much lighter construction compared to the MV40/45/55 type machines.
 
NF6 is the fuse for the 24V power supply. It looks like MS6 is for M6 and M7, the spindle lube pump and way lube pump motors. I can send you an electrical print if that will help.
 
My mv35/40 is having similar issue as OP

I just found myself in a very similar situation as the OP. My machine ran fine till yesterday when the control shutoff while i was working on backing up settings, diagnostics and parameters. Like the OP, my machine isn't completing power up. I get both power lights at the breaker, fans power on, x,y,z and spindle controller all have green leds. In with the 24V power supply, behind the tape player, on the right wall are 2 contactors, "NCM" & "SVM" .. "SVM" isn't picking up .. Is not getting a signal to pick up.
At the control panel when i power up the machine, the crt only flashes "yasnac" for a split second and goes away .. Crt has power the whole time.

. What I'm hoping is the OP fixed his machine and knows what the problem was. A bonus would be someone knows the startup sequence or has a wiring diagram or knows what signals "SVM" to pickup. I believe "SVM" indirectly powers the hydraulics, wiring on "SVM" contactor is to small to power a hyd. Pump.
View attachment 281813
I'm sure i can figure all this out, i was just hoping someone else can shorten my trip through miles of 30 year old wiring. I've already had problems with brittle terminal block parts in the servo controller cabinet.
On that note does anyone know the manufacturer of those terminal block parts? I need a couple few.
View attachment 281827
View attachment 281826
Anyone recognize this maker's Mark in the bottom corner?
ABB4ECC0-432E-423D-837B-8E9681D43FE7.jpg
View attachment 281828
 
I found some terminal block information .. Yoshida made the terminal blocks, kt15 is the style and size .. kt being the style and 15 being size in amp rating. They don't seem to make it anyone but do have a ktu15 with similar design and rating. It looks to fit on the same size din rail, I have not verified that.
That maker's mark I posted is Yoshida's
 
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So I've been through the wiring and now I'm to the boards. I guess next I'll look at boards that see 240V. I was running the machine on a 15hp rotary phase converter that could be balanced better. Live and learn
 








 
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