Philips, Grundig, Millplus Information Collaboration
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  1. #1
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    Default Philips, Grundig, Millplus Information Collaboration

    Good day to my fellow Deckel Maho/DMG members.

    I've been collecting as much information as I can in regards to the Philips/Grundig/Millplus control series. This entire family of controls is basically being abandoned by it's parents who both have moved on we are left with an increasing concerning problem. I know the older VME based stuff is completely unsupported now, as Heidenhain told me last year anyway.

    If we were to all work together to gather as much information and old software perhaps we can build enough support to keep some really good machines running for a long time to come, it would be nice if this could easily be found in one place. If there was such as place at HH or DMG, that place has been put in the dumpster so if you have this family of control this is a real issue. As it is now I'm reading about simple communication problems taking weeks to solve, odd glitches with software, owners rolling back versions of their software just for stability... it goes on and on.

    The problem is how random and far spread all this information is. To find what you are hunting for can take a long time and I noticed just recently the German Millplus iT website quit working too. Not a good sign. I understand some guys are holding this close to their chest because they make money doing this themselves but now so many have stepped away or simply have already forgotten that there is far more need than there is supply of support.

    If I ask Heidenhain to provide me with much pertaining to this control, they say they can't because of an agreement with DMG that prevents them from sharing the information (I think they don't have much information anymore as a result). I ask DMG and they say its pretty old and I really should talk to Heidenhain. No one really thinks it matters, except maybe an owner of a Duoblock that decided to take the "millplus" option, after all... those aren't cheap. Then there is my Indramat 532 MC800H...

    "How much did you say you wanted for that control upgrade? I blacked out suddenly and might have hit my head" *Blacks out again at quoted price*

    No drives
    No servos
    Just the control itself.

    "You get what you pay for" - Yeah, this is like value when you go to the dentist. You wait as long as you can until it hurts so bad you have to do something, you know you are going to get a huge bill but then at least the pain is gone. You don't walk out happy, you walk out with much less physical pain and some emotional scarring.

    At this point the universal answer of "New control retrofit" comes up from Heidenhain. Between them and DMG they hold the keys to unlocking the IPLC so at least all the logic could be brought into the "new" control. Will they do this? DMG doesn't have the MIPS software and Heidenhain doesn't have the permission.

    Is there anyone on the face of this earth that is still roaming forums that even knows of a single living person that can at least give some insight on the IPLC side of this?

    Heidenhain will simply upgrade your control no matter how far back it goes if it from the TNC or iTNC family. No need to reinvent the wheel, just upgrade and change what you need. I can't say if they credit you for having a SIK of the same level on the old control but they sure don't take this into account with the Millplus control.

    In summary, we should add a Philips/Grundig/Millplus section on this site, if there isn't already. It should be a Maho CNC/DMG subsection.

  2. #2
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    Getting in or working on the IPLC is highly specilized work . I believe it is all written in 1 and 0 and/or hexadecimals. And as very different hardware/software versions were used, upgrading is not easy or simply impossible. So forget upgrading and just use the machine as is.
    There is one thing you can do: if you have a machine with a HDD ( Millplus and up ) try to make an image of the HDD. If it breaks and you don't have a copy, most likely the machine wil never run again....(disclaimer: messing with the HDD/software/control at your own risk, don't blame me if something goes wrong)

  3. #3
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    I do have a full set of backup discs for Millplus V4.0 for my DMU50v. Ive copied these in case anyone needs digital versions to rebuild after a trashed drive on the same machine. Pretty sure all youd have to insert your machines parameters into the flies to replace my shipped parameters.

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  5. #4
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    Thank you for commenting on this. I see you are from the land of Philips, did you spend time there?

    When the IPLC, or any of the programming of the VME series of controllers was performed, didn't Philips build software to aid in preparing the programs? I think it is call MIPS (Machine Interface Programming System). I have reviewed my E-mails and yes, DMG has confirmed that their software department no longer has the PLC software or the source file. I have an E-mail from Heidenhain confirming that they never saw the actual machine specific file for the control, DMG takes care of that.

    As a comparison Fanuc has FLADDER software that makes programming the PLC very user friendly. It allows a user to just decompile, save and view the ladder, the original source file is not required. If you wanted to upgrade to a newer control it wouldn't be all that hard to reuse most of the logic even though the final file would be totally different. I think the Philips/Millplus IPLC doesn't use ladder PLC logic per se, it is a language of it's own that is then compiled to run as binary or hex as you describe. The source code would be needed though as I don't think the software can decompile like FLADDER can, according to Heidenhain.

    When I say "bring the logic into the new control", I'm thinking just having a way to see any unique logic in the control such as the ATC and APC so it can be duplicated in function for newer software to compile for the newer control, not just trying to reuse the IPLC file as is. DMG told me the servo tuning data is in the program data too, not controlled by constants so if I wanted to upgrade my drives to digital for example, which the control did have boards to support, it still wouldn't be possible. The Indramat drives I have all have little custom "personality" boards that allow for the servo to be tuned to the drive outside of the control entirely. I think the Siemens Simodrive is different though, and that may be what they were referring to. On Fanuc controls all servo tuning is done in the control itself but with parameters that can be changed independent of software.

    My 532 VME has only the SRAM SSD HDD but my comp-tech buddy was able to copy what was on it but he doesn't think it will help much if it does in fact get wiped. As I understand it, there were disks that could be used to boot from that would allow initial use of the SSD to get it working. It hasn't come up but it may already be configured in the BIOS for this type of motherboard and just is a matter of temporarily adding a HDD, configuring in the BIOS and transferring files. I am not certain the older V3xx series control software was setup to allow a larger HDD to be used like in the newer "Millplus" controls, does anyone know if this was an option?

    I appreciate any insight anyone has on this and I have no intention of pointing fingers. Utmost care and due diligence is needed with all of this data.

    I am not totally against putting forward the money for a TNC/iTNC control upgrade but I would want to be able to have similar access as the FLADDER allows to Fanuc for it to be worth it. Many if not most CNC operators and programmers never change the PLC but for those of us that have done it to add "smart" features to the machine, it is tough to be told "You are not allowed" to do it anymore. Simple things like adding a smart fixture that can provide feedback to the control when a part is loaded, or to add a dwell if the control detects the through spindle coolant pressure isn't high enough yet... or even taking the time to make the rotoclear only run when coolant is on and for a certain time afterward as well as a fan... it can all be done externally too, but being able to fully add this to the PLC allows the user to make the machine itself respond in unique ways to the situation it is now aware of.

    I have a feeling that when all the dust settles the best approach is to just buy a new but old stock machine or slightly used but at least iTNC530 controlled machine and run with that. They may not be cheap but at least you are dealing with Heidenhain's control. DO NOT get a control that has someone else's front end software! Any machine that has a true Fanuc or Heidenhain control is dead easy to get support and documentation on because that is what they do. Get a control that has someone else's front end software and now you are back to the "Millplus" problem just waiting to happen again.

    My Hitachi Seicos was like that, special Hitachi specific passwords that you could never get no matter what unless you knew someone that used to work for them.

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  7. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by markp View Post
    I do have a full set of backup discs for Millplus V4.0 for my DMU50v. Ive copied these in case anyone needs digital versions to rebuild after a trashed drive on the same machine. Pretty sure all youd have to insert your machines parameters into the flies to replace my shipped parameters.
    Sorry I didn't see this until after my last post. This is awesome and a perfect example of what a person out there might need to make the difference between running a good machine one day and having a machine for scrap the next, unless they wanted to pay 4x what it is worth just to get the control parts to put on the machine anyway, PLC programming costs on top of that.

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    Default need tour help regarding millplus 4.0

    Quote Originally Posted by markp View Post
    I do have a full set of backup discs for Millplus V4.0 for my DMU50v. Ive copied these in case anyone needs digital versions to rebuild after a trashed drive on the same machine. Pretty sure all youd have to insert your machines parameters into the flies to replace my shipped parameters.


    hello sir i need some help regarding millplus grundig v4.0 if you can....thanks


    asif

  9. #7
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    I sure hope the guy received a private message and someone helped him!
    I mean, the scope of the thread is to help EACH-OTHER with Grundig problems and the first guy that asks for help is being ignored completely? I hope not...

    I have a Kern CD480 lathe from 1996, with Philips PG1220 Series, Grundig Millplus control. The CMOS battery went bad and i had to replace it. It's easy to find the battery and replace, but the problem is that you lose the BIOS settings. My machine doesn't have a IDE HDD, it has Flash drive, so i could not find the right parameters on the HDD (cylinders, sectors, etc).

    I emailed DMT-KERN and asked for the parameters. I was very surprised to receive a really fast answer from them, with the parameters. You need to connect a keyboard to the Philips control and input all the parameters. It takes a few minutes and IT WORKS!

    Normally the HDD parameters need to be right and the EXM parameters.

    In the attachment you can find the BIOS parameters that i used. I hope this will help someone.
    bios-1.jpgbios-2.jpgbios-3.jpg

  10. #8
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    I have a KERN CD480 with Grundig Millplus control (Philips PG 1220 Series). The battery on the EPC-8 board is dead, so i had it replaced. It's easy to find the battery, it's on the EPC-8 board. The problem is that the BIOS parameters are now gone.

    I contacted DMT-KERN and they immediately sent me the BIOS parameters. I was pleasantly surprised by their quick answer.

    The new parameters work and the machine now boots. In the 3 attachments you have the parameters.

    My machine doesn't have an IDE-HDD. It has a Flash drive, so the correct Flash address needs to be set in BIOS for it to boot correctly, but you have all the parameters in the attachment.

    I hope this will help somebody.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails bios-3.jpg   bios-2.jpg   bios-1.jpg  


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