Is Agie 100D CD control the same as Agie Sprint CD control ?

Both machines 1992 vintage. I've been told by a couple of sources they are different controls, but I have both machine CD controls side by side and have compared nearly all the boards and they appear identical to me...same part numbers, everything. So, were these sources wrong...or if not, what the heck is different ?

The reason I ask is while my 100D reportedly worked perfectly* (and tests by me so far bear this out), the Sprint supposedly had a "board" problem. (both machines from same company), so I'm hoping to do some board switcheroos from CD to CD in order to pinpoint the exact issue.

*reported by ex employees who ran the machine before company went bankrupt.

Could they perhaps have different software? How "hard" versus "soft" are these controllers?

bryan_machine said:

Could they perhaps have different software? How "hard" versus "soft" are these controllers?

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I suspect there are some differences in the parameters.... on the boards with EPROMS perhaps I could compare the part numbers on each EPROM to see if they are different.

But what I was getting at were the contentions that the controls were "completely different"....which I think is just flat out wrong.

Same ?

The first thing is what type Sprint ?
1. Sprint
2. Sprint 20
3. Sprint 70

The Sprint (original type that has the upper head that can be tilted to adjust the threading jet) is vey similar to the AC100D. Generators are night and day !

Look to see if you have the SBC-08 in both controls !

Larry McNamee

visit: EDM Corner

EDM Support said:

The first thing is what type Sprint ?
1. Sprint
2. Sprint 20
3. Sprint 70

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A number of folks have asked me that and I'm always mystified as all it says on the data plate is "Sprint"...so I guess it's no. 1.

Yes the generator is completely different from the 100D gen.

Sprint = Sprint

Then it is a Sprint.

If your rotate the upper head to align the jet = Sprint (better type of adjustment)
If you adjust the upper threading jet by adjusting the nozzle = Sprint 20/70

Larry McNamee

EDM Support said:

Look to see if you have the SBC-08 in both controls !

Click to expand...

Yes, SBC-08 in both. For my curiosity, why do you keep mentioning that particular board....is it the most likely one to go out, or perhaps the most problematic from a replacement and/or cost standpoint ? or ?

FWIW, I connected the Sprint to power yesterday and saw it come on for the first time. Everything seems fine except as expected there is a board error (when I bought it, ex employees told me it was a good machine but had a "board problem" that cropped up right before the company closed)

The message is regarding X or Y "print" board not working and says to check fuse 13. Sure enough the LED for fuse 13 (on one of the power supply related boards in lower left corner) was not on, but unfortunately the fuse is fine. But the fact that LED 13 just happens to be the one not be glowing does make that board highly suspect....will know more later today.

SBC-08 - Identifies Sprint type

I can easily identify the Sprint type by asking this. The SBC-08 shows that it was the first type Sprint machine made and the boards in the control are very similar to the AC100D. If you swap boards you need to make sure that the firmware is the same. !

Remove the SUS board that you found the fuse on and see if there are any burned traces. Also check the SUS board next to it. The fuses protect the output but not the input to the board. The traces tend to become fuses !! Burn traces normally mean that thete are shorted components on the board.

We do have these boards in stock or we can have yours repaired if not.


Larry McNamee

Visit: EDM Corner

EDM Support said:

Remove the SUS board that you found the fuse on and see if there are any burned traces. Also check the SUS board next to it. The fuses protect the output but not the input to the board. The traces tend to become fuses !! Burn traces normally mean that thete are shorted components on the board.

Click to expand...

I should be so lucky.... I almost never have CNC problems that are so easy to detect. And sure enough, here we go again. The boards that could have defects that relate to this error are the SUS 02, STB 01 and DBE 01 boards. I've replaced all of these boards with identical known good ones from the 100D CD control, and still get the same error and same GL13 "not on" LED light. I also replaced the other SUS board just for the heck of it... no cigar there either. Good voltages at the main transformer that inputs to SUS...getting 48 VAC for input to the 60 VDC section of SUS 02 (should be 49 VAC according to schematic)

This error (381, supply for motor print board X or Y defective) apparently relates to a lack of 60 VDC, but what is really strange is I do get 60 volts between test point TP13 and TP14 (on SUS 02) but do not get any voltage at pins 19 and 20 on the J4 connector (or at 60 volt test points on the backplane board the J4 feeds... voltage testing with J4 still connected to board, btw..done via wire penetration probes)

At this point all I can guess is a wire/cable issue but that would be very odd if so as they all appear pristine. The only other possibilty would be if something in the generator somehow interacts with these boards in the CD control but no indication of that in the electrical schematics. On the theory of a short in X or Y motor I even disconnected the motors and the motor drives and still get the same error.

Speaking of which, it's interesting that someone has replaced the Y axis motor and it has a different drive board than X.... both appear new...apparently the updated motor required a different board design.

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Here's a PDF file that shows the 4 pages of schematics that relate to this error www.practicalmachinist.com/AgieCD.pdf

Axis Problem

Do you have the schematics that come with the machine ? They do show this circuit in them.

Did you exchange the XY driver boards with the other machine ?
Did you check the fuses on the XY driver boards ?

Are the other lights on on the 2 SUS boards on ? They should "all" be on.

This could also be caused by the X or Y axis activating and axis safety switch. Make sure the X or Y are not near the table limits !

Don't be quick to accuse the wiring !

Larry McNamee

Visit: EDM Corner

EDM Support said:

Do you have the schematics that come with the machine ? They do show this circuit in them.

Click to expand...

I just posted link to PDF file with 4 pages of them that relate to this circuit, complete with notes....do you mean yet something else ?

Did you exchange the XY driver boards with the other machine ?
Did you check the fuses on the XY driver boards ?

Click to expand...

No, but their appropriate LED's seem to be working right... I can switch the X axis driver but not the Y, since the Y is unique...but also nearly new so highly unlikely to be defective.

Are the other lights on on the 2 SUS boards on ? They should "all" be on.

Click to expand...

yes, as already stated all LED lights are on except the one next to Fuse 13 on SUS 2. But the fuse is good.

Don't be quick to accuse the wiring !

Click to expand...

I'm not...that's why I said it would be very odd if it was the wiring...but that's all I'm left with so far... but I agree, it's probably not the wiring.

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Not that it has anything to do with this particular problem, but do you guys by chance have the circuit diagrams for the Agie Sprint Agiepuls HMC generator ? ( Circuit diagram 629142.1 )

Y Unique !

Is there a possibility that the Y axis board has a plug on it for the motor ?

If yes then this is the replacement for the original style and it must be kept with the motor it is driving. These do fail but can be converted back to original.

You can still put the board in from the other machine just to see if it clears the error. It simply will not move the axis.

Circuit Drawings - I probably do. Let me look tonight ! You just may need to remind me.

Larry McNamee

EDM Support said:

Is there a possibility that the Y axis board has a plug on it for the motor ?

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Yes, the new Y driver board has it's own new cabling and plugs that go straight to the Y axis motor.

Milacron said:

Yes, the new Y driver board has it's own new cabling and plugs that go straight to the Y axis motor.

Click to expand...

Did you try the other XY driver board ?

Larry

EDM Support said:

This could also be caused by the X or Y axis activating and axis safety switch.

Click to expand...

Fixed it ! As it turns out your statement about the limit switches did lead to the solution. I knew that Y axis was probably at the limit all along but couldn't figure out an easy way to turn the screw by hand so I had removed the limit switch bar... but still no action.

But I gradually came to realize that it might be so far beyond the limit switches that there was a chance the screw had seized and perhaps tripped something in the drive. Checked the fuse in the new drive and sure enough...blown. Put in new fuse, but still no movement. Still couldn't see any way to move the table screw by hand, so in desperation I removed the end of the motor bell... and to my pleasant surprise there was a screw in the middle of the encoder that allowed me to move the table screw (sure enough it was stuck) Tried the pendant again and Y axis moves at last !

And what a move it is...this new motor is way quietier than the original stepper motor. Found the original installation kit manual for the motor and drive...motor is a Mavilor MSS-4 and installed in 2005.

Thanks for that limit switch tip, as that finally got my brain cells churning in the right direction ! So there was no "bad board" after all.... just "bad info" from previous owner !

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As an aside, I wonder what Agie charges for this axis retrofit kit ? (Mavilor motor, IMC-11 drive, and cables) Probably more than the entire EDM machine is worth, but I'm curious...

I think just over $3500.00
Larry

EDM Support said:

I think just over $3500.00
Larry

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Interesting...I figured it would be twice that much knowing Agie...$3,500 on the verge of reasonable !

Axis drive Update

I do have a used XY axis update kit that includes motor, board and cable if you are interested !

Larry McNamee

Visit: EDM Corner