best steel for permanent wire edm fixtures
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    Default best steel for permanent wire edm fixtures

    any of you guys know what they make edm rulers and such from? I figure a 4 series stainless since they are magnetic, but not 100% sure. I have a bunch of 440c on hand.

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    There is a pretty good thread on the subject here. Looks like what you have will work but might no be the most corrosion resistant.

    Hope it helps! Gary

    Anyone made any homemade wire EDM vises?

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    i swear i searched.

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    TO THE GALLOWS WITH HIM!!!!

    The forum's search function sucks and always has. Best bet is to use Google and restrict its search to the domain, here. That works pretty well.

    As for material, I use any of the Martensitic Stainlesses that I happen to have on hand when I make them. 4XX series and 17-4 used all the time with satisfactory results. I do have a few of D2 and they have done well enough but require attention to detail in cleaning.

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    😄 I wasn't trying to make any kind of statement about searching I was trying to find out what 3R used when I came across the thread. I have a hard enough time searching up things I know are there let alone when I don't.

    Gary

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    ok.. so where the heck do you buy stavax steel..

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    Our edm fixtures here are exclusively 17-4...only issue we have is operators cutting them lol...

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    440C here. Although we do have a couple aluminum fixtures that were made for one offs that became repeats.

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    We use 440C also. We have made several vices and angle plates and V blocks.

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    i ordered 420ers. should last a decade.

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    I believe 3R tooling is all 420.

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    System 3R use Stavax(Uddeholm Stavax ESR | Uddeholm)
    I have don some fixturs and it work great. At the same time you can harden it.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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    17-4 is what we like to use. It cuts nice hardened, its magnetic for easy grinding, and holds up well. Even at H900(40-46 Rc), it is still pretty good to work with if it needs a modification down the road. 17-4 has similar corrosion resistance to 420. Since our fixtures aren't on the machine any longer than a couple of weeks at a time, and are cleaned up after, corrosion hasn't been much of an issue.

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    Hi All:
    Years ago I built a very fancy tiltable EDM vise from Stavax Supreme and I have to say I'm a bit disappointed.
    I got it back from the heat treaters at 53 RC which is about as hard as Stavax will go.
    In my opinion it's still too soft for a vise.

    It's about 8 years old now and has seen pretty heavy use.
    It's picked up lots of little dings over the years that have had to be stoned out even though I've always treated it carefully.

    I also have a matched pair of grinding vises I built from A2 about 40 years ago.
    They are 62RC.
    Aside from the scarf marks some asshole (me) put into one of them once upon a time, they are still pristine.

    Both handle the same kind of precision ground hardened blocks under very similar clamping conditions, and the difference in condition is noticeable.

    So for my money, harder is better, and the obvious choice is 440 C stainless because it will go up to 60RC.
    Those seven Rockwell points make a big difference...more would be even better.

    Like Zahnrad Kopf, I've also made stuff from D2, and it works nicely as well, but two things are not to my taste with it.
    First is it's such a bitch to grind, especially to grind accurately.
    Second is it's not as corrosion resistant as 440 C.
    But it will get harder and for a precision permanent tool, I believe that's important to consider.

    Cheers

    Marcus
    Implant Mechanix • Design & Innovation > HOME
    www.vancouverwireedm.com

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    For hardened stainless tooling, try to avoid any sharp internal corners, if possible. Stainless will develop stresses via age hardening. One shop I was in would temper all the stainless mold cavities every 6 months. 600 degrees F, IIRC.

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    Quote Originally Posted by implmex View Post
    Hi All:
    Years ago I built a very fancy tiltable EDM vise from Stavax Supreme and I have to say I'm a bit disappointed.
    I got it back from the heat treaters at 53 RC which is about as hard as Stavax will go.
    In my opinion it's still too soft for a vise.

    It's about 8 years old now and has seen pretty heavy use.
    It's picked up lots of little dings over the years that have had to be stoned out even though I've always treated it carefully.

    I also have a matched pair of grinding vises I built from A2 about 40 years ago.
    They are 62RC.
    Aside from the scarf marks some asshole (me) put into one of them once upon a time, they are still pristine.

    Both handle the same kind of precision ground hardened blocks under very similar clamping conditions, and the difference in condition is noticeable.

    So for my money, harder is better, and the obvious choice is 440 C stainless because it will go up to 60RC.
    Those seven Rockwell points make a big difference...more would be even better.

    Like Zahnrad Kopf, I've also made stuff from D2, and it works nicely as well, but two things are not to my taste with it.
    First is it's such a bitch to grind, especially to grind accurately.
    Second is it's not as corrosion resistant as 440 C.
    But it will get harder and for a precision permanent tool, I believe that's important to consider.

    Cheers

    Marcus
    Implant Mechanix • Design & Innovation > HOME
    www.vancouverwireedm.com
    The material we machine is extremely abrasive, the h900 17-4 holds up very well. The biggest issue we have is the burnt material getting into threads and knuckleheads not flushing them in the rams, then forcing them back in...then there's the butterfingers lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by pmack View Post
    17-4 is what we like to use. It cuts nice hardened, its magnetic for easy grinding, and holds up well. Even at H900(40-46 Rc), it is still pretty good to work with if it needs a modification down the road. 17-4 has similar corrosion resistance to 420. Since our fixtures aren't on the machine any longer than a couple of weeks at a time, and are cleaned up after, corrosion hasn't been much of an issue.
    I know this is an old thread, or oldish anyway. I was curious about the System 3R tooling so am glad I came across the thread. I use S3R on the wire edm we have and I have to say, after maybe 2 decades use, it has no corrosion. I get the usual wire residue, easily removed, but no rust. If the 17-4 is anywhere close to that it would work fine for what I want of it. I'm designing something for work where I want some hardening but not too much, as I want to wire in a collapsible section that will only move under heavy load. No load and the section stays in its original state. I was looking at the collapsible jaws on the S3R vices and they work fantastically well.
    I was hoping to find a steel that would enable me to harden it into the late 40's say, but would allow for some slight movement afterwards in this one section. 17-4 sounds like it might fit the bill.

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    I use 440c stainless. The 420 has a little less electrical resistance than the 440c.

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    I finally got around to shooting an Erowa wire edm vise with the Thermo Scientific XRF gun.

    The image marked "1" is the "quick mode" which does a best fit with a list of about 300+ alloys that are in the gun's internal database. Images 2 and 3 are a detailed breakdown of all the alloys the gun can make out after a considerably longer "shot".

    fwiw...

    PM


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    Quote Originally Posted by precisionmetal View Post
    I finally got around to shooting an Erowa wire edm vise with the Thermo Scientific XRF gun.

    The image marked "1" is the "quick mode" which does a best fit with a list of about 300+ alloys that are in the gun's internal database. Images 2 and 3 are a detailed breakdown of all the alloys the gun can make out after a considerably longer "shot".

    fwiw...

    PM


    Attachment 293778

    Attachment 293779

    Attachment 293780
    Interesting, I had to look up your Thermo gun, never heard of it. Do the figures stack up against the metal System 3R use, it's Stavax isn't it?
    I'm actually makiing some jaws now with a built in collapsable section using some GFS, just to make something quick. I'll have to heat treat it to the low 50's or it will break but it will give me some idea. I'll have to look up some 17-4 or 420c for the real thing.


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