Considering a Charmilles D10 for a hobbyist - ?Power reqs? - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    (This post was "forgotten" while transporting all the posts from the old forum)

    Some times I see extra specifications to the type Charmilles D10. What does the term "isopulse p25" mean ? Is it an extra option and what does it mean in practice ?
    I'm looking at an "Charmilles isopulse P25" from 1975 for the same reason as the topicstarter.
    Would it be usefull as an allround small edm machine for making hexagonal and square holes in metalworkers tooling, name engraving in hardend steel and whatever-else-mini-jobs may come in sight ?
    Thanks for explaining.


    mark already explained that P25 is about the power supply. But what does "isopulse" mean.
    Also I saw some big box at othermachines. It looks like there's fluid in it with two motors attached. Maybe someone can shed some light on that. Is it possible to run the machine without that box ?

    The owner of the machine where I'm looking at is abroad til december 10th so I can't ask him or take a look at the Charmilles.
    @mydnac thanks for your extra tip about the hydraulics
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails charmilles-p25-1-1.jpg  

  2. #22
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    Smile

    Yoyo: The unit you are talking about is the dielectric filter/pump/storage unit also has hydralic system for ram in it, and heat exchanger to control dielectric temperature. Yes it is very necessary.

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    isopulse P25 is a 25 amp generator with "isopulse" technology.

    if i am not mistaken all P25's are "isopulse"

    isopulse is charmilles circuit topology pertaining to how they generate and control the spark energy.
    they have evolved this technology over the years.


    this is sort of like Chrysler has a "hemi" V8


    most edm manufacturers have their own "technologies"

    the cooling fans in the P25's must be operational!!!!
    they are very odd shaped, like a 6" long 2" diameter squirrel cage....
    they can be replaced with some different styles...
    air must be flowing across the generator board, or should i say, the "isopulse" generator board.
    just make sure they work....
    this will keep your trusty isopulse very happy.


    the D10 is probably the most popular edm sinker ever sold.....i've seen so many of them.
    albeit a manual machine, they can produce outstanding work, viva la operator!!!

    ah ...just thought of something....you might be thinking of the "isocut" option, and not isopulse!!!
    isocut is the z axis orbiting option....not all machine have this, there is also a rotating z option, and
    a magnetic tool holder option....


    hope that helps

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    Yes mdynac, that helps very much, because options en extra tooling is were the real HSM nerd lives for. I will have an eye for these extras. I'm glad to hear that these D10 are allround and reliable machines. It sounds like the ideal machine for a hobbyist to do some EDM-ing with.
    Perhaps do you know what the option "Monitron" stands for ? It sounds to me like a device for monitoring the gap with.

    About the filterunit, I couldn't see it on the pics but it will probably be there. It's a kind of disappointing because it will take more space in my crowded little shop than I thought.

  5. #25
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    Yoyo: You are right Monitron is a spark gap minitoring unit. It has a buzzer that goes off and stops maching when you have an abnormal discharge ( contamination or breaking through on a through hole). There is an amber colored light on it that you try to keep to a minimum glow by adjusting the servo on the machine control, this helps control proper spark gap. On a real pissser our old D-10 complete sold for $175.00 at aution yesterday!! The hydralic unit usually sets below the bench the machine and control set on.

  6. #26
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    Default What kind of Bench to make?

    mdynac, Thanks for the tip about the fans.

    Anyone know what the 'Microfin' add-on unit does?

    Also, what size bench came with these units? Mine was already crated and sold without the bench, so I need to make one. It's sometimes helpful to start from the manufacturers dimensions, then build from there.

    Thanks,
    Denis

  7. #27
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    Microfin is the fine finish add on for the D-10 machine. Works very well when burning small holes in carbide, thats what we used ours mostly for. It plugs in on the side of the generator cabibet -w- a cable that also goes to the back of the machine for power. There are 2 settings for it on both sides of the power/edge find selector dial for + and - electrode polarity. Can't tell you about the bench ours came with the metal base. Mark

  8. #28
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    Microfin is the charmilles fine finishing generator.

    however on the P25 i think it is nothing more than a bunch of different value
    capacitors that can be switched in across the gap. i may be wrong about this...
    i think the P25 has a microfin setting on the generator itself. when in "microfin"
    mode most edm's put out high voltage (like 200v) with very low current and a bunch
    of selectable capacitor values.

    regular machining (no microfin) will put out low vloltage (80v) with very high current, up to 100's of amps.

    again "microfin" and the aforementioned "Monitron" technologies have evolved over the years.

    the monitron in an isopule I80 generator is essentially test equipment with no displays, they measure voltage, and waveform analyzer functions in the circuitry. complete with selectable triggering.....et al...

    the P25 monitron is not quite as complex, but it still does what is expected of it.

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    The manuals will go to post office today. BTW we don't have a chiller on either of our D10's they will run a fairly long time before overheating becomes a problem.
    Bob

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    I can't believe it... I have this machine!!!! The d-10 was throwing me off. Mine is a P-25. Huh.. This must have been a popular machine... I have a rotating spindle on mine and get to play with it once a month or so. This is a great machine for a home hobbiest. You should be able to have a lot of fun with it. Non-submessed though... Be careful...
    I have a chiller on mine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Cee View Post
    Non-submessed though... Be careful...
    I have a chiller on mine.

    the D10 burns in a submerged tank of temperature controlled oil.......

    all sinkers do......

    some hole poppers or tap removing type edms do not.....these usually just flush
    thru the electrode, yes they are hollow,

  12. #32
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    The "standard" bench measures 60" x 30" x 34" high

    I built a small steel bench for my D10 just big enough for the dilectric tank to go under. It has a "swarf tray" on top with a drain back to the tank to catch any minor spills.

    I raised the controll unit up on a steel "box" which has a water tank, a water pump a cooling and radiator hidden inside and servers as my "chiller" unit.

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    deckelnut, is it possible to post a picture of your system ? It sounds like a smaller version of the stand. More like the kind I want to fabricate. Some information about the dimensions would be very much appreciated.

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    I will try to get something together for you during the weekend.

    I think I may still have AutoCAD drawings on my HDD

  15. #35
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    I will try to get something together for you during the weekend.
    Are you referring to a weekend in this year ? (there are two left).
    Just kidding, I don't want to hurry and push my appraised colleague forummembers.
    I collected my D10 but have it standing on the floor. I hope the electronics have survived the ride. The rubbers (tubing etc) are a little hard, I also hope they won't crack when the unit gets reassembled.
    A quick setup to do some testing is not easy. All the edm fluid has to be put back and the hydraulics have to be reconnected. And I need a bench to put it on. I would like to make the bench of the right size at once.
    I saw in the manual a advised width of 150 cm. I try to cut it back to 125 cm. Do you think that is practical ? Or does that leave not enough room for table movement.
    Would it be advisable putting the fluid storage container with the pumps on wheels ? That way it can be drawn to the front quickly and all things can be reached easy. Or is it seldom nessesary to do maintenance on these kind of things ?
    My D10 has a cooler of the waterspilling type so I'm very interested in your chiller. Did you make it yourself ? I have an old CV-pump lying around that could do the job. But what's puzzling me is de size of the radiator and the blower on the radiator. Can you give a description of these ?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails p25-arrived.jpg  
    Last edited by yoyo; 12-18-2007 at 06:12 AM.

  16. #36
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    [QUOTE=yoyo;788712]I collected my D10 but have it standing on the floor.survived th I hope the electronics have e ride.




    pop off the back cover of the P25 and make sure the circuit cards in the cardcage located in the upper left hand corner are all properly seated....before applying power.

    upon power up ensure that the cooling fan is running......

    check for proper phasing of the flush and filter pumps.

    make sure to bleed the hydraulics as stated in the manual (with the coffee can to bleed into)

    another thing about this machine, the hydraulic reservoir is located directly behind the z axis, it is an angled cavity in the casting. it is not located in the flush cart. only the hydraulic pump and hydraulic chiller lines are in the flush cart.

    make sure that when the z axis jogs up and down, the sight tube fills up almost to the top and back down again with hydraulic fluid......

    michael

  17. #37
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    LOL,

    erm. sory, been bit busy of late, I am on shut down after noon Friday, so perhaps this weekend, should be a quiet one too as children are away also,

    IMO 125cm (4' 1") is too small and 150cm (4' 11") is needed if mounting on a single bench.

    my unit comprises of a bench IIRC 30" deep 25" wide and 27'" tall, and a 'riser' for the control box IIRC is 24" wide and 14" deep x 27" tall, this houses a radiator from a British Leyland Mini and a fan. the water pump is off a washing machine and the motor is a NEMA size 70 1/3hp IIRC which drives both fan and pump.

    I have all the cables and hoses rising out of the top of the control, accros a 'gantry' (an upside down folded channel)

    the benches are made from 2.5mm (10swg) sheet steel, folded to make legs 1.1/4" deep channels running top to bottom, with a 1/4" thick x 2" wide strip welded to one end to form a foot and 1" x 1/4" strip welded inside at the top, flush with the top edge to provide fixing point for the 'swarf tray' which is a 1" deep tray folded and welded from 10swg sheet and screwed down with countersunk screws to the 'legs'.

    a back plate was screwed in place using tags on the legs. an apron is fixed in place at the front to add stiffness to the front

    the dielectric tank is mounted on an angle iron frame with casters so I can wheel it under the bench and a simple sheet steel door hides it away.

    as the tank 'trolley' sits under the bench, a further strip sits behind the front caster wheels to stiffen up the base

  18. #38
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    Default charmilles D-10/d-20 microfin switch

    hi guys ,
    i have charmilles D-10 machine.but i do not have the microfin switch. there are many wires in the machine so i'm really confused which wire stamds for what. it would be really appreciable if u kindly send me a picture of and diagram of the switch. Also if you have any manual for that machine then please kindly provide me with that. thank you.

  19. #39
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    She's a beauty...
    I have her sister right here.
    I'll see if I can scrounge up some manuals.
    All though I have to admit, I've been real bad about getting suh things off to people lately.
    Work is CRAZY busy!!!!

  20. #40
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    They didn't throw in the table she sits on??
    Cheap #astards!!!

    I see you did get the chiller though...
    That's good news.


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