FX 20 Threading Issue

tzak · Nov 25, 2018

I am trying to the the auto thread to work on a older Mitsubishi FX20. The machine and wire EDM process is new to me but I was able to cut a test part last week which was a big first step. Now I am trying to go through the whole machine and trying to get the auto thread to work. It seems to me that the water stream is not lined up for the top and bottom cups it’s close but a little bit out. When I try to run the auto thread it doesn’t work and the wire bunches up or comes out the top side of the bottom cup. I did a wire alignment for the U and V axes and have been pretty careful to clean up the whole machine and parts. I have cleaned the diamond guides in the ultrasonic, now and am wondering if there is another alignment I am missing or what else to try/test.

Hopefully there are some more tips out there.

Thanks

Scottlj · Nov 26, 2018

I used to run an older FX10 and understand it can be frustrating. Just one thought, if this machine had sit idle for a long period of time, like a refurbishment,you could have a lot of hard black build up all throughout the H2O system. I have seen this in the past and it will require ensuring all flush nozzles or cups are free of contaminant as well as all of the solenoid valves. I have seen most of the problems in the valves themselves. Black chunks will break looses after running the refurbished machine again and usually get caught in the valves so one can't fully close while another should open. If this is the case, it may take a hand full of times taking things apart and cleaning until the system is clean. I hope this helps and good luck.

tzak · Nov 26, 2018

I've been pretty careful making sure things are clean. I have disassembled the lower and upper cup assemblies and have cleaned all the parts in the ultrasonic. I know it's sometimes hard to get to all the areas. I did manage to get lucky and have it auto feed once today at about 3.5" Z height. I have tried about 10 more times since and no luck. I really think it's just not lined up correctly or something is getting hung up right at the lower cup/ and diamond. I re-did a wire alignment with the gauge, one question if there is something out with my alignment gauge would that affect were how well the top and bottom are aligned for the auto threader. I don't think the gauge is out but just trying to figure some other things to look at. Thanks

Scottlj · Nov 27, 2018

That could affect it but I think it would have to be way out of alignment for that to be the case. I used to dial my block in vertically using an indicator traveling with the Z axis. If you haven't been into the water valves yet looking for chunks of hard deposits I suggest doing so. I have even seen the seats in the valves worn away so they can't shut off all the way.

Jim7511 · Nov 27, 2018

I would try adjusting threading jet pressure to see if you can get it to align & check to make sure threading nozzle is clean and mounted correctly.

The bearings in the lower rollers can go bad and not really "seem" bad. But if you are bouncing off the lower cup it is probably not the bearings. Also make sure the cooling hole(horizontal) in the Diamond Guide is clean and clear.

I am not 100% but i believe the older machines have a feature that allows you to have a UV move to align the jet during a thread?

tzak · Nov 27, 2018

I have tried to adjust the jet pressure and it seems as though I can only get it set to a maximum of 0.4 which is what the setting says to set it to. But I would think I should be able o increase it a bit. So I am wondering if something is clogged or if the pump is not at full strength. I did try an AWF again today and it worked once. But at this point I think it's more luck then it working.

I cleaned the guides again and check the cross hole ,all seems good to me.

I have not found the setting to adjust the UV during wire feed but that would probably solve the trick if I could figure it out.

plastikdreams · Nov 27, 2018

Check your powerfeeders and do a wire alignment

Jim7511 · Nov 27, 2018

plastikdreams said:
Check your powerfeeders and do a wire alignment

If the Guides are aligned the jet should be straight. If its not straight something is up with the nozzle.

Dumb question for the OP. Do you have the lower flush cup in the "up" position? Our "A" series machines dont like to thread with the cups in the lower position.

tzak · Nov 27, 2018

I double check the powerfeeders. I did an alignment yesterday and am getting the same result.

So you think it could be a nozzle issue? More so the diamond guides? or the actual nozzle and cup?

Not sure what you mean by Up and Down position on the lower cup. Mine is just sprung loaded.

Jim7511 · Nov 27, 2018

It should be spring loaded, the cup has flats on it and there should be roll pins on the cup retainer, these roll pins can give you an "up" and "down" position depending. Rotate you flush cup 360 degrees to see if it pops up.

That lower cup should be flat within .0005 I think, and the cup itself .004 below the table.
I dont like .004 so i put mine .030 under the table because we use a lot of vises.

tzak · Nov 27, 2018

So when you turn the cup on the roll pins. Which position should it be in the Up or Down like you mentioned?

Jim7511 · Nov 27, 2018

tzak said:
So when you turn the cup on the roll pins. Which position should it be in the Up or Down like you mentioned?

Up, you want it up.

tzak · Nov 27, 2018

Ok.. so I have somewhat success. I took the top nozzle of and cleaned the guide. When I first put it back on I did a AF test and the stream was off again. Then I turned the inner ceramic cup about 90deg and it seemed to be way better. I will have to get another one of those. I did an autofeed from about 6" away and it worked 4 out of 5 times. The only other hang up it seems to get is right at the back by the rollers. Something doesn't engage every well and the wire bunches up. If I give it a little pull it seems to go in ok. So must be some dirt or debris in there. Anyone know what is the best way to clean that part up to get a couple working AWF cycle now.

Thanks

Jim7511 · Nov 27, 2018

Get some plastic cups when you buy replacements. Do you have a wire chopper? If so the blades are probably worn. I remove all of our choppers but on the "X" series machines I dont know if that is possible iirc the "CX" i had you could not remove the processor. Also the "nozzle type thing right before the rollers....pull that out clean it and rollers too. Reset pressing roller force and you should be good to go.

I made a super long pipe cleaner i run through the lower head (with diamond removed) all the way through and out the back of the machine to clear any debris.

Hope this helps

tzak · Nov 27, 2018

I don't have a chopper on this machine looks like it was removed. I cleaned the ceramic right behind the rollers but I will looks at the stuff before it now. Hopefully is not too hard to disassemble and clean.

You mean plastic flush cups?
If you don't have a chopper do you just have it go into a bucket?

Jim7511 · Nov 28, 2018

tzak said:
I don't have a chopper on this machine looks like it was removed. I cleaned the ceramic right behind the rollers but I will looks at the stuff before it now. Hopefully is not too hard to disassemble and clean.

You mean plastic flush cups?
If you don't have a chopper do you just have it go into a bucket?

Yes, plastic flush cups.

It more like a plastic bath tub than a bucket. I am not a fan of chopped wire.

tvalen1432 · Dec 14, 2018

I use this machine daily and it is frustrating. I feel ya. If you find that you have to use scissors to cut the wire it leaves a burr on the wire making it larger than the wire guide it is going through. I use sandpaper to smooth it or just cut it again. That is one suggestion.
2) Make sure you are cleaning the whole bottom head and all its components! There are actually 2 more "wire guides" below the main one. You will need a tooth pick and q-tip to really clean them.(and acid cleaner AC500 is the best but strong). I'm going to try to add pics for you. Hopefully I can.
3) The other way to adjust the flow is back by the pumps listed in the book as "K" valve I believe. If you haven't read it yet, see section 8 of the manual. (alittle helpful but not always) LOL . Actually, if you would like, message me and I could give you my number. It would be easier to fax you ref pics and that way when you have questions, I can hopefully help you right when u have them.
Don't get frustrated too much. I think the machine likes that. Ha ha.
But when all else fails with threading, adjust your height/distance between the heads, or just go to aux switch button under screen, then push 6 to feed a bit, push 7 for suction and hand feed it until it grabs, and hold 6 down until it makes it to the wire cutter. Be patient and feel free to message me if u want.
Hope this helps,
Tvalen1432

tvalen1432 · Dec 14, 2018

Also, I would seriously try to get a wire cutter because they were meant to have one. this will help alot!

Tvalen1432

tzak · Dec 14, 2018

Thanks for the response Tvalen1432.

I have had some success in the auto feed. The wire can start and get into the bottom guide ok and feed all the way to the back just before the rollers and then gets hung up somewhere. So that is the last step in the autofeed process. I have taken the roller and aspirator off and cleaned the tube in the back but the wire still seems to what to hang up somewhere back there. I have used an acid to clean most of the machine and all its part, that was also recommended to me and has worked great. The 'K' valve which you mention that adjusts the pressure, I can't seem to get past the recommended 0.4 Mpa on the jetting pressure adjust. I am wondering if my pump might be starting to go?

Unfortunately I don't have the full manual for the machine just the Auxiliary one which doesn't really go into much maintenance details or drawings. I would like to also hook the wire chopper back up but someone cut the wires in the back and now I'm not sure what goes where to get power back to the motor. I'll message you if you have any more questions, thanks

tvalen1432 · Dec 17, 2018

To be honest with you the book you have doesn't scratch the surface of the big manual. You really should look into getting the other one. The FX10 is basically the same as the FX20k if you can get either. The FX20K manual part number is BRN49734-A. You may even find it on line PDF or used. It is 3-4 times thicker than the auxiliary manual as well as more in depth on maintenance, trouble shooting, programming etc. MC Machinery can be a lot of help sometimes with parts and stuff. IDK just some FYI.

Take care,
Tvalen1432

FX 20 Threading Issue

Aluminum

Plastic

Aluminum

Plastic

Aluminum

Aluminum

Diamond

Aluminum

Aluminum

Aluminum

Aluminum

Aluminum

Aluminum

Aluminum

Aluminum

Aluminum

Aluminum

Aluminum

Aluminum

Aluminum

Similar threads