FX10 - where to adjust back lash?
Close
Login to Your Account
Results 1 to 10 of 10
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Wiggins CO. USA
    Posts
    1,422
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    10
    Likes (Received)
    69

    Default FX10 - where to adjust back lash?

    I have a 96 - FX10 and I think I have about a tenth back lash in the Y and have been poking around in the control pages as well as digging through the manual trying to make heads or tails of the page I *THINK* is where I would may the changes... But Im not finding anything, and a bit chicken to go changing numbers willy nilly.

    Could anyone walk me through the screen(s)/data labels on the screen(s)? Or maybe the section in the manual that covers it that I have yet to find? I can post pics of screens etc if that would help.

    Is there any specific methodology Mits wants one to use for checking back lash or am I fine just using various methods Ive seen for Okuma or Fadal?

    Thanks for any advise.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    greensboro,northcarolina
    Posts
    2,508
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    166
    Likes (Received)
    649

    Default

    First I would say if you only have .0001 backlash in a 24 year old machine that has never been checked or re-calibrated, you are doing great. How are you measuring it? Do you know if the backlash is in the screw or the bearings?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Wiggins CO. USA
    Posts
    1,422
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    10
    Likes (Received)
    69

    Default

    The machine had new screws/bearings put in a couple years ago according to the company I got it from... But really its more just my OCD kicking in while trying to battle something else - and just has me looking at everything and questioning everything. No idea if its bearings or screw.

    As far as checking it, I cut a rectangle punch type block and set on a granite plate with a Mitutoyo .0001 DTI, I get .0001" deviation from one side of the "tab" to the other. I just figured if a quick .0001 adjustment to the backlash would make it go away... then Id do it. If it doesnt, and its pitch error or something else, Ill just leave it and move along to other things. If it did make a difference, I would probably get my .00005 Mitutoyo DTI and focus a little more on in and try dialing in even closer - as the .00005 DTI is as good as I got for checking.

    In the end, its more my OCD/anal-retentiveness and always wanting to know how to do things I may or may not need to do. You know, continue learning enough to be even more dangerous :P

  4. Likes tvalenzuela1432 liked this post
  5. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    greensboro,northcarolina
    Posts
    2,508
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    166
    Likes (Received)
    649

    Default

    Is it because of the pick to the edge with the wire that it is off, or dimensionally inside the rectangle,one side larger (or smaller) compared to the other side? In other words is it an error in the X-Y motion of the machine, or and error in the location of the cutout to the edge of the part?

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Wiggins CO. USA
    Posts
    1,422
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    10
    Likes (Received)
    69

    Default

    The forum rotated the pic on me.... Y+ is short side without tab - Y- has the tab - X+ and X- are the long sides (in the pic top long side is the X+ (right) side as I had it mounted in the machine. This is one left in the block because of an error in Epaks and over burned so just quit there and left it in the block (machine broke the wire at the very beginning of the first skim and when I got it threaded again, it picked up running the skim pass with the roughing Epak for some reason).

    (rotate it 90° CW for how I took the picture) The left (X-) side of the tab is .0001" longer than the right (X+) side of the tab (measuring the Y) - Feels like Y axis backlash, but obviously I cant check screw pitch error etc... just figured if I threw a tenth on to the Y backlash, if it went away - great. If not, Id chalk it up to something Ill look into some other time.

    Running a rough cut and 4 skims - Material is A2 at 58HRc - .7" thick - part in pic is appx .508 x 1.560




    20200724_150134.jpg

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2020
    Country
    SPAIN
    Posts
    30
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    5

    Default

    Hi Wade C,

    If machine has new ballscrew usually bearings must be changed and a laser measurement has been done. This problem has already appeared now?.
    Before touching any backlash first of all change DD GUIDES UP & LOW, POWER FEEDER IN NEW POSITION OR NEW, WATER QUALITY AT 2, LOWER ROLLER IN GOOD CONDITION AND FINALLY COLLECTION ROLLERS WITH GOOD MOVEMENT AND NO INTERRUPTIONS, ALSO CHECK THE POWER FEEDER CABLE AND GROUND CABLE. Before this check wire tension if possible and perform wire align and taper Z, to put the aligment device with precission must put the clock in the pins and clamp it until it reaches 0 in both axis U and V. For the machining test don't use power master to cut a simple punch 10 x 10 x 20 mm. If everything goes fine should be no wire breakage or at least few of them because mechanically machine is in good condition.

    Now machine has the pitch error ( Static compensation ) and Backslash ( dynamic compensation ) both made by laser measurement, when a ballscrew is chaged ALWAYS NEED LASER CALIBRATION. Backslash is not in the manual because is something that is only for techs and the changing of it could make a big trouble on machine. I would say first of all check all the other points and if with this doesn't work maybe you could ask for the supposed laser measurement where you purchase the machine.

    Best Regards.

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Wiggins CO. USA
    Posts
    1,422
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    10
    Likes (Received)
    69

    Default

    Machine is new to me as of May 2019. Bought machine from my tech, the guy he sent out to install it said they had done the ball screws a year or so ago when he was out installing it here. Could the problem have been here then? Could have but I dont remember it being there on the test piece he cut during install. Ive not had a reason to check it until recently.

    The guides have maybe 100 hours on them, if that. Total machine on time is 160ish hours. Power feeds are in new position. Havent checked the lower roller but will. Collection rollers look good, no interruptions in movement. Power cables look good but feel a little stiff compared to the ones on my SZ machine.

    When cutting the part, the first rough was done with power master with wire offset having an extra .005 added to the call, then did a "semi rough" which was PM off, using the same roughing EPak, but with flushing on low and the called for wire offset. Followed by 4 skims, following the book - no power master. The first couple times I noticed it, I was running the wire chopper. But the last one I tried, I pulled the chopper and just let wire spool in the bin. Finishes looked a bit better - as I have always noticed that the chopper makes the head shake, and you can see it with a .0005 or .0001 DTI when the head is stationary, while setting up a blank. It looked like the amount of deviation from one side to the other was reduced a bit after that, but thats just by eyeballing the needle between ticks on the dial of a .0001 DTI.

    I dont follow the info you posted about the alignment device... other than it needs clamped rather than just set on the table (which is how the tech showed me to do it, didnt clamp it - but I also seldom do any high accuracy work either)

    Ive emailed the tech about it, and gotten no reply, so guessing he is busy as all get out. Thats why I posted here, thinking I could avoid pestering him - but I will add it to my list of stuff I need to talk to him about and get answers to.

    Thanks for the input. I will look into everything you have posted to check, including things Ive already done etc, and when I get some time I will also try new guides/power feeders/ check settings etc... to try and see what it does.

    Thanks again!

  9. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2020
    Country
    SPAIN
    Posts
    30
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    5

    Default

    Hi Wade C,

    Here in Europe I know the Tech who do laser calibrations, and by protocol they give a report as official technical service from Mitsubishi. Also the pitch error and backslash disk have the date and the sign of the tech who made the laser measurement (it's obligatory Japanese protocol). That's why it was strange to me, in any case maybe the problem was there or in the transport happened something is not the first time.. was the machine locked?? X, Y and Z axis with yellow blocks??.

    Regarding your consumables, DDguides stand up around 2000 hours but I must say it depends what kind of wire you use, for example hardened wire 1100N/mm the life of consumables gets short. For me usual wire is 900N/mm.
    You're correct about the chopper, in Japan they don't use it, it gives extra vibration to the wire and also the finish could be affected.

    About the wire alignment, I usually do as Japanese that means passing a clock in the jigs and using clamps to let it on 0 in U and V axis. If you let the wire alignment device just only the table, if your table is not so good and you have difference of tolerance this will get pass to the alignment device. Is like when you clamp a workpiece and by clock you let it on 0.

    PD: In my last post I said Water quality on 2, sorry I mean 24. Also I'm not familiar with Inch metric system...but your error in mm one face to another is ?

    Best Regards.

  10. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Wiggins CO. USA
    Posts
    1,422
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    10
    Likes (Received)
    69

    Default

    Machine had locks bolted in place on X,Y and Z axes, dont think it any damage from that. Talked to the tech today and he said that the FX10 spec was within .0002" so the .0001 Im seeing is fine. So guessing Im just being OCD about nothing.

    Im running Versacut .010 Hard brass, I think its 900N.

    I understand now about the alignment tool... I have not been clamping or checking it with a DTI. Ill do that and see what the difference is.

    Inch to metric, the error Im seeing is .0001" which is 0,0025mm ifI did my math correctly.

    I have another wire (older 110SZ) Im having an issue with, Ill start a new thread in case you have any insight you might be willing to share.

    Thanks again!

  11. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2020
    Country
    SPAIN
    Posts
    30
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    5

    Default

    Hi Wade C,

    If your tolerance is 2 microns between Y and X believe me that's VERY GOOD !!! for a machine like this. Customers that we have wants to perform less than your difference and needs MV series with clima control and as you can imagine is not ballscrew what this machine has..is tubular magnet.

    Best Regards.


Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •