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Mitsubishi FX20 - problem after relocation, upper head float alarm

satsun

Plastic
Joined
Sep 11, 2018
Hello all

we bought mits fx20 1997, in seller's garage the machine was working. After relocation and installing machine we have problem with alarm "U730 T/C in wasser 0000" which inform that upper head is in water or there is a problem with float in upper head. I checked the wires and float, it's ok, cables from float to board are in good condition and when i move float up and down the state on connector (that goes to SIFA board) changes. So the float and wires are ok.
Software was reinstalled.

1. We don't have any diagrams and other service manuals, only programming manual. Maybe somebody have some docs or knows where get them?
2. There are addresses in machine software with input/output bit map (1/0) but i didn't find correct address that shows the state of the float/limit switches or other inputs which are in connector M1 so i didn't check what is the state of float in machine controller. If somebody have correct bit map to FX machine could share it?
3. Any ideas what can i check?

Best regards
 
I checked everything twice and the addresses are good but not all.
As you see on photo
A90000 looks ok, but next row which first bit (bit F) is upper head float state is 0 bits_mitx_fx20.jpg

i enclose photo with other addresses IMG_20180917_085051.jpgIMG_20180917_085156.jpg

Any ideas?

Best Regards
 
Hi, this may be a long shot but by chance was the float removed at all. There is a clip on bottom that holds the black bobber in place. Please note that the bobber only goes one way. Try flipping it around and putting clip back. I did this once but not sure of what the alarm was it gave me.

Just a thought,
Tvalen1432
 
Hi Tvalen1432, usually this problem comes from the 3 pin in the back of the upper head, just by cleaning could be solved or instead the water quality has no good condition and the sensor is unable to give signal. If the water has too many resin the display shows the value in yellow so the sensor doesn't detect it. So by the post of satsun I guess should be the water.

Best Regards.
 
Yes one time I had to replace the 3 pin sensor box in back of head because of this as well. But clean it with something like a tooth brush or Q-tip and rubbing alcohol or water. *NEVER USE ACID CLEANER or any harsh solvents or abrasives like scotch bright etc.*

Thanks,
Tvalen1432
 
Hello all,
in my case the problem was probably bad contact in connectors in the board on the upper right side of control unit.


The machine has poor cutting efficiency, my maximum is 90mm2/min.
For example if in EPACK book average liner feed is 200-300mm/h, my machine does max 150mm/h.

Any ideas what to do to improve cutting speed?

Nozzles are set 0.15-0.2mm, maximum water flow, powerfeeds are ok, wire 0.25mm, i don't know how to improve it...


Other problem is angle cutting, Z1-Z5 set properly, i used angle cutting in monitor window using normal program without angles and if I set 6 degree, machine cuts about 9, if I set 4, machine does ~6, looks like it's 1.5x set value.
Cutting 20mm thick, it doesn,t matter how big is upper nozzle gap, if I set 0.15 or 40mm the result is the same.
 
Glad you found the problem. Sometimes well most of the time, LOL, there are so many variables as to why the machine is having a certain problem. Thank you for letting us know the solution you found so we are aware of yet another route to check in this situation. Hopefully someone has a suggestion for the other issue.

Good Luck,
Tvalen1432
 
Hi Satsun, for cutting speed there's some variables to control: first one is water flow, becareful the flowmeter don't show the real flow must put your finger with High Fluid in the upper nozzle trying to make load if you can cut all the flow with your finger the high pressure pump has a problem or the 5 valve unit. The same goes for the lower nozzle.
Second is water quality, must be on 24 in the monitor, also clean the 2 pin sensor before reading and if you have some instrument to measure microSiemens 24 means 15 microSiemens.
Third, must look for the power feeder cable condition and ground.
Four, Power feeder, DD guides, lower roller and collection rollers in good condition in order to have proper wire tension.
Five, VG SET. For this step must put some parameters in the Epack and adjust it by hand. I made one post for Tvalen1432 explaining how to do it.

For the angle cutting is very important to do a good taper Z after align the wire. The point is to put the Z taxis on 100mm and test angle 5, so machine will locate the points automatically in the DD guide in order to give an angle result that must be +/- 0.003mm maximum. Doing this you will see that U axis does about 9.9mm or 10mm and the same for the other side. VERY IMPORTANT: Put a finishing Epack to do this procedure and wait about 10 seconds before launching align or taper Z to have good tension on wire. Also in the program set Z1, Z2 and Z5.

Regards.
 
Hi

1. Water flow, in my opinion looks good, with open nozzles flowmeters show maximum flow, with 0.15-0.2 max 5-7 l/min, cutting flow by finger is impossible.
But it's some strange situation, sometimes after 2-4 hours of cutting flow is going down, cutting piece is parallel so the distance between nozzle and material is constant.
During cutting if I open valve to pressure gauge (AF JET pressure) the gauge goes up to 10bar(gauge 0-10bar), with wide open nozzles and flowmeters the pressure is about 2 bars.

2. Water quality good, if i check the sensor in clean new water it shows about 1-3.

3. It looks good... but is it possible to check it in other way ? Ground cables looks like new.

4. Power feeder are quite new and if I rotate to new position no improvement,
DD guides - looks ok but i'm not sure if they are in perfect condition,
Lower roller in lower head - 3 months ago bearings was replaced, rotates smoothly.
I checked wire tension, it's a little bit lower than it should be. On WT8 it should be 1200g, in my machine is about 1100g.
5. VG - didn't checked, I will look your post and check in nearest future.


Angles - You are right but i think even with improper automatic alignment it shouldn't be difference in angle, only in taper posion in Z axis, so the the angle should be ok, only the dimmension would be bigger or smaller.
Z1 - lower section of cutting piece - the same height as table so 0
Z2 - feed height - my piece was 20mm height so I set 10mm
Z5 - top height - 20mm
And the angle is bad...

Thank you for your help.
Regards
 
Hi satsun,

1-If you can't cut the flow with your fingers that means the high pressure pump is OK. I didn't understant at all the last sentence about the AF JET, I supose that if you open the JET pressure gauge the cutting flow goes up again ? If that, maybe it is some trouble in the 5 valve unit.

2- The sensor must show 24, 1 or 3 means that the water is too ionized, so must put tap water in order to achieve the 24 value. Also with 1 or 3 you will have T/C IN FLUID, so water will touch the float switch behind the Z axis.

3- Yes it is possible to check by taking out the electrode cables in the rear of the generator and also taking out the conections on the lower electrode. The upper ones are not needed because they're not in the water. Then with a digital tester you can measure them by Ohms or connectivity.

4- Power feeder new position OK, DD guides has 2000 hours then must be changed but I must say that if you use a hardened wire as 1100 N the life of this consumable reduces a lot. Lower roller OK, Collection rollers are OK?, no wire lines?. About the tension of the wire, WS must be on 12 and WT at 8 for this values it has to be 1200N (reference value), WT 11 must be 1800 and for WT 13 must be 2200. Adjusting VR5 on MCA PCB you can adjust the offset, and in VR6 you can adjust the aligment or slope.

5- When you have time for VG the water quality must be on 24 it is very important for this adjustment, also must do it with worktank drained and all the flowmeters closed.

Angles: In order to perform maximum precision when I have my alignment gauge in the table I set 100mm on Z axis and 5.000 angle test. Before I do aligment and taperz I set the gauge passing a clock between the lower and upper pins in order to clamp them and put it on 0 for both axis, U and V. Once I set this and performed everything on the program depends how you set your Z's. Z1 could be 0 if your lower part is the smallest part of the cone and could be 30 if your smaller part is on the upper face. Z2 usually is the half of the cone. Z5 could be the biggest part of your cone if Z1 is set to 0, and could be 0 if Z1 is set to 30. Also it depends if it is a punch or die in which case depending on the compensation G41 or G42 the angle should be negative or positive.
I know it is a lot of info but just a question, when you perform taper Z the U axis moves +/- 9.9 or 10 mm ?
I have a document than can be very helpful to you, but I need to send it by private mail as I do with Tvalen1432.ñ Just agree me as a friend and leave to me some email in order to send it, is in Spanishi but it has some drawings that are really helpful.

Best Regards.
 
Hi Mitsu_Tech_Spain

1. There is steel plate between nozzles, gap is about 0.15, I turn on FLUID HI and then I open JET pressure gauge in the rear of tank, in my opinion it should be like this, on enclosed diagram, there is no one way vale on jet section so the pressure is going backwards to the pressure gauge.

2. Of course the sensor shows 24, but I checked it in clean, new deionised water and it shows small values so IMO it looks ok and it isn't dirty or damaged.

3. I checked it, checked ohms, 0.1 ohm, 0.2ohm, looks good, but these new ones W1C and W2C have no continuity (photo), i think they should go the table (ground)

4. Collection rollers have some wire colour lines but after cleaning they look good (photo)

5. I check VG, 1st setting 70V but the next one 98-102V (photo), the water was about 26, i will check it later when the water wil be 24.

Which one is 5 valve unit?

I sent you an email adress in PM

IMG_20200714_104005.jpgIMG_20200714_104028_min.jpgIMG_20200714_105735_min.jpgIMG_20200714_105931_min.jpgIMG_20200714_110934_min.jpg
 








 
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