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Mitsubishi FX20 Water filling up working tank poor preasure and debri

T

tvalen1432

Aluminum
Joined
Nov 21, 2014
Location
Pomona
I'm pretty sure this is likely do to the pump needing to be cleaned as well as piping, but has anybody experienced this? Also I noticed that as the work tank is filling there are bubbles coming out jets as well. To me that says air is getting in the lines some how maybe a clog. Am I on the right track at least? Any guidance welcome at this point.

Thanks,
Toni
 
How are your filters? It took me a while to realize that my back pressure gage wasn't working...I kept wondering why I had bubbles in my tank at high flush plus my conductivity meter would go to zero.... turns out that the clean side of the tank was just going dry because the filters couldn't keep up.

Ward
 
Changed 2 lg filters, and 2 resin bags, and I think my co-worker chgd the small one by resin bags and still the incoming water to fill tank is lagging a lot and there are bubbles from inlet, down by ceramic plate, and from jet holes. Also, they like to super extend the filter lives even if they have used some WD40 on the parts so it will limit the rust as the parts sit over night not submerged in water. A few of the sensors are not doing their jobs right either. (I'm sure need to be cleaned as well) I'm trying to do what I can to fix it before the machine goes down and I have nothing to run.
 
tvalen1432 said:
Changed 2 lg filters, and 2 resin bags, and I think my co-worker chgd the small one by resin bags and still the incoming water to fill tank is lagging a lot and there are bubbles from inlet, down by ceramic plate, and from jet holes. Also, they like to super extend the filter lives even if they have used some WD40 on the parts so it will limit the rust as the parts sit over night not submerged in water. A few of the sensors are not doing their jobs right either. (I'm sure need to be cleaned as well) I'm trying to do what I can to fix it before the machine goes down and I have nothing to run.
Click to expand...

I would never use WD40... that is probably why your sensors are acting up. I use a spray on wax that dries in a few minutes to prevent rust. Really you could just put the drain code M58 in before the end of your program, while you are at it throw in a M121 to open the tank door.

As for your problem with bubbles I would be looking into the check valves and the valves.

Good luck!
 
First, not leaving on the pumps for purposes of saving filters ( or cost of filters ) is just plain dumb.
The debris is already in the dirty tank, so it will only get out of it through the filters no matter what.
IOW regardless of when the pumps are on ( machining or not ), they will still get into them.

Now bubbles are a pretty good sign of a starved pump, meaning that the filter pump cannot keep up with the flush or filler pump.
Good way of checking that this is the case is that you'll have bubbles when filling, but during machining with only flush volume going through, you're fine.

Another possibility is that the screen on the bottom of the pump is clogged, but usually that results only in weak filling and not bubbles.
 
FX20-1.jpg FX20-2.JPG FX20-3.JPG FX20-4.JPG

A very similar thing happened to our FX20. Had a bad solenoid D, and the constant throttle block F was eroded out. With those two things bad the filter and resin pumps could not keep up on rapid fill, or high flush. So the clean tank would run low and starve the pump, thus the air bubbles and noise, bad juju.

In the first pic, the aluminum block with the two solenoids, the larger solenoid mounted to the top of the block was shot, the seat was totally gone. I believe that is solenoid D, solenoid H, is the smaller one mounted to the side of the block. The second pic is the constant throttle block. Block F, it is a fixed orifice valve that was worn out, the hole was three times bigger than stock. The third pic is so you can see where things are at the back of the tank behind the filters. The fourth pic is the stub pipe from the bottom of the aluminum block into the tank, right at the edge of the opening where we fill the water.

Look at that stub pipe, if there is water flowing/spraying from it all the time, that might be your problem. Water should only come from this pipe when you AF Test or AF Wire Collect. I replaced these items and things were back to normal.

Hope this helps, Bill
 
Forgot to add this to my last post.

Drain the work tank, observe the flow of water coming out of the lower arm. Close the upper and lower flush flow meters. Turn on the flushing, the flow out of the arm should change. If you cannot see any differance in the amount of water flowing when turning on the flushing, high and low, the constant throttle valve F is bad.

I had gone through all the other things, like making sure filters are good, resin and pre filter are good, pump inlet is clean. These solenoids and valve block being shot, diverted enough water flow, the system could not keep up, it doe's not take much. I ended up replacing solenoids D and H, and valve F.

Bill
 
There is weak filling and bubbles. Even as a a little experienced EDM machinist I know u shouldn't use WD40 and shouldn't run filters that far but as a worker I can only try to clean up their mess u could say. TY I will check the screen on pump. I'm not getting any more debris coming out though prob because it's clogging up pump but my fill up is at a creep and low flow coming out the cylinder where head is as well.
Much thanks
 
Bubbles could mean the clean side is getting low and the pump is sucking air, which can damage the pump. With that said, another thing that can cause slow tank filling, is the inlet screen at the bottom right of the work tank, right below the float. This can get real restricted and slow the flow filling the tank. It's a pain in the a$$ to get to and clean. Did you check the stub pipe going into the tank? The flow coming through the lower arm, where the head is attached,should be low all the time, it will noticeably change with different modes of flush selected.
 
I have one question in regards to those solenoids, couldn't you of just cleaned them and used some sort of rebuild kit for rings etc? Or is that not an option? I ask because it recomends that you clean them once or twice a year in manual.
 
Yes that is an option, and I have done it several times. In this case the seat was gone, just deteriorated. The constant throttle block was eroded to 3 or 4 times bigger on the orifice. I did this repair after we installed a new main pump, the big one drawing out of the clean tank.

On our SX10, all the solenoids are on one common manifold block, I've had to tear into that several times over the years. Last fall we replaced the whole thing, expensive, now the system works as it should.

These machines are 20 years old now, shit wears out. We bought these new in 1995 and 1997, they replaced a HA110 and a 90C. The newest wire we have now is a FA20P we bought new in 2005.

To your question, yes try to service/repair first.

Bill
 
Thank you Bill. I hope that didn't sound rude of me for that was not my intention. I just wondered if was just better to replace it or not. Well I noticed recently that the hose leading to the pump that lay sideways against the tank, was collapsing. I let my supervisor's know and nobody is concerned so I guess I wait till pump goes out.:crazy: LOL. At least I am more informed of what to look for in these cases for future.

Thanks to all for your input. I am an info sponge.
Toni V.
 
I feel your pain there, with management that doesn't get it. We just gotta keep plodding along, learning how to be Mitsubishi mechanics. Have to keep up on the maintenance, these older WEDM's are maintenance whores.

Bill
 
BillDe,
Thank you for all this info! At the time the valves and pipe under valve D wasn't what needed to be fixed but here we are 12-2020 and the description pertaining to the pipe spraying constantly is now my situation I am dealing with. I keep a log of all issues and comments from here on the forum and I'm so glad I had this to reference!

A million Thanks!!:cheers:
 
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