What speed with what machine is the fastest?

customlll · May 10, 2006

I am wondering what is the fastest cutting machine? Is anyone getting over 20 square inches per hour in 1" steel with .010 wire?? What is everyone getting out of there machine?

MitsTech · May 10, 2006

I don't think we currently sell a machine that can't get 20square in 1" hardened steel anymore. I regularly see speeds of 220-240 using standard technology in our .800" D2 block that we use for test cuts on new machine installs.

You could probably go even faster but a lot depends on your final surface finish and size requirements. Since our test cuts must prove accuracy and finish to a specific benchmark, we have to stick with book technology. If you're going for speed only, you could probably push them even faster. Sorry I don't have more specific answers for you but I'm service, not applications

www.mitsubishi-world.com

SeymourDumore · May 10, 2006

OK, I have to get in this one.
I never seem to get a real answer on this, so I'll ask here:
For the example above, .8" thick 20sq/hour, the feedrate should be .416 Inch/min. Is that correct, or the feed should be .416/2=.208 inch/min?
What I mean is that the sq/hour figure is one side or both sides of the cut?

MitsTech · May 11, 2006

You have to understand that sq/hr is not completely linear. You can't say a 1" peice will cut at 2x the feedrate of a 2" peice, etc. Having said that, .250in/min feed on a 1" workpeice (attainable with standard tech) is 15sq/hr

If speed is a priority over finish, we also have speed tech, and if you really need to haul butt in a production environment, we have our "V" series of machines that are really fast. We've gone 47sq/hr on /.014 wire, and about 40sq/hr on .012 wire.

Again I would like to remind the board I am a service guy, not applications. I don't run the machines much outside of test cuts to verify a repair or new install. But I know our apps guys can get them cruising!

customlll · May 11, 2006

Let me get this right, when a manufacture says their machine can cut 20+ square inches per hour they mean 10 linear inches per hour in 1" think material???? I just looked at my sales brochure on my 1996 Charmilles 310 and it does say it will cut 23 square inches. The best I have ever done is 14 in steel, What does the new machines cut with a .010 wire???

precisionmetal · May 11, 2006

20in²/hr in 1" thick material would be a 20" long cut.

To the best of my knowledge, most manufacturer's claims are done in 2" thick material, nozzles *ON* the part, and the largest wire the machine can take. (and it's probably safe to assume that a lot of fine-tuning was done to attain that "magic" number)

IMO, real world usage will rarely even approach those "factory" numbers.

SeymourDumore · May 11, 2006

MitsTech

That's what I'm wondering about. I really am not trying to pin one machine against another, just simply curious how the sq/hour is determined.
Typically, the fastest - read highest sq/hour cutting - is attained at around 2" thickness.
Regardless of wire size, type, or everything else, the sq/hour is given as what?
Linear inches/hour x thickness
or
linear inches/hour x thickness x 2.

In other words, for a 1" thick material to obtain 20 sq/hour, your feed/min should be .333 "/min or .1665 "/min?

Mike Meadows · May 11, 2006

All that number is linear inches of material the machine is removing. Say you have an 1.5" block in the machine. you are cutting at 5 surface inches an hour, your are moving 7.5 sq an hour.
That is the best explanation I have.

customlll · May 11, 2006

The reason I am asking about speed, what is the advantage of going to a newer machine? I have a Charmilles 310 with very low hours and it cuts 12-14 linear inches per hour in 1" material. Would a new machine be faster?

imported_D_C · May 11, 2006

custmlll

When you say 12 to 14 inches an hour, you mean first (main) cut, right?

What kind of material? If it's D-2, thats pretty good but if its aluminum thats fairly slow.

There are machines made today that will constantly cut 20 to 30 sq an hour, all day long, in Hardened tool steel, such as S-7.

Anybody that CLAIMS they can cut 47 sq an hour, all day, in hardened tool steel. Well, they belong in the local comedy club.

BIG HINT here. Use cryogenics when machining hardened tool steel. The material may not cut faster but it will be more stable.

The advantage of going to a new machine:
Faster Cutting
Newer Technology
More capablities/options (most of the time)
More Dependability (less break downs)
Faster/Better Control

D_C

customlll · May 12, 2006

Yes I mean 420 stainless. I am cutting 1.400" thick 420 stainless right now and it is cutting at 10 linear inches per hour, or 14 square inches per hour. That is about the best it will do. Will the new machines do much better than that?? I am using stratifed 0.010" wire.

Mike Meadows · May 12, 2006

Customll,
Are you using stratified wire in your 310??
the 310 has a stratified generator. That will also increase your cutting speed.
The 310 however is out of date. You could get a new machine either a 440CC or a 390CC and you will definetly increase productivity. If all you cut is 1" D2 stick with the 390 but if you do larger peices with variable 2 hieght go with the 440 because it is submersible, meaning better flushing.

Jay Cee · May 12, 2006

That 310 your running Mike was the first orange machine I ever ran. It was also the fastest I ever ran. I was using cheaper than cheap brass wire. I figured, at that time, that Charmilles were all fast and mentally gave them that classification. Now I have a 6030, 330F, and a 230. None of which come close to the speeds I saw on that 310. They are all submerged and all need a visit from the tech, but all and all, I miss my Mits. These orange machines need to much attention... Currently using statified on the 6030, zinc impregnated on the 330F and 230.

TheMetalDoctor · May 12, 2006

Mits, Agie both claim 47 sq/hr, but I would have to see it to believe it. A brand new machine under lab conditions and controlled evironment, maybe, but not in the practical world.

TMD

customlll · May 13, 2006

I am using 0.010" stratified wire. I have a 1996 310 and it has a brass generator. Now whats the difference between a stratified generator and a brass generator? I have used both a 1992 (stratified generator) and a 1996 (brass generator) 310 and noticed very little difference in speed.

Mike Meadows · May 13, 2006

customll don't quote me on this but a stratified generator is designed for stratified wire as far as voltage amps that it will put out, they were designed according to stratified wire specifications and run awesome with stratified wire. But if you but half hard brass in they run slow. If you have a brass generator your going to run faster with brass wire.

customlll · May 15, 2006

I think I heard all 310's had the same generator, only the software was different and I guess the tec files, is that true?

imported_D_C · Jun 12, 2006

Custom,

14 sq is pretty good in 420 S/S for a 1996 machine. I assume the 420 S/S is hardened.

The new Agie Progress should about double that speed using .010 wire.

D_C

EDM AE · Jun 13, 2006

You won't get anyone from Agie to commit to sale contingent on 28 sq/hr with .0100" though... nor any other OEM, for that matter.

imported_D_C · Jun 17, 2006

Who said anything about 28 sq? Not me.

The new Agie Progress is rated at 47sq, not 28sq. The Agie 250 HSS is rated at 28sq but unfortunately Agie doesn't make them anymore.

I used to get 20sq an hour (main cut, D wire) all day long on an Agie AC220 and that was a 1993 machine.

I have found that Charmilles is one of the slower cutting Wires on the market (circa 1990's).

D_C

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