What's new
What's new

Wire EDM accuracy

KK80

Plastic
Joined
Jun 4, 2017
Hi,

We have new Sodick ALC600G (Europe market) machine.
We need to make example go no go gauges with the machine but accuracy is not enought.
Example in Ø50mm (2") hole roundness was 2,5μm (0,00001"), hole is oval/ellipse. This hole is measured by roundness measuring machine.
How accuracy new machine should be?
Did somebody else make roundness measuring of cutted workpiece?

Also Im interested what is best way to make approach to precise round hole, straight or with radius?
 
I think Sodick is very happy with a tenth of a tenth roundness. That is quite something for orthogonal generation by ball screws or magnetic motors. No machining method other than lapping is likely to get better.
 
I think Sodick is very happy with a tenth of a tenth roundness. That is quite something for orthogonal generation by ball screws or magnetic motors. No machining method other than lapping is likely to get better.

If .00001 of circular run-out isn't tolerable straight off the machine then there's not much more that can be done.
 
There's a conversion problem of some kind here. 2,5μm would be 2.5 microns, no? Or about 100 millionths of inch, or a tenth of a thou, which is 0.000'1". That is, 10 fold worse than the 0.000'01 (10 millionths) written above.

Seems to me that precision better than 2.5micron or 0.000'1" likely requires lapping or some such, but I'm far from expert.

If you are realy getting 0.000'01 (10 millionths) off the machine, I'd be happy....
 
This hole is measured by roundness measuring machine.

Not many people have one of these to check parts with. :bowdown:
Hoping the gage is in good condition and can be trusted to sub-micron.
One can rotate the part and recheck making sure the numbers follow.

Where is the ellipse oriented?
Is it repeatable in position to the machine axis? If it is you may be able to tweak axis comps (or tweak the program).
I think you are doing pretty well but maybe you should be able to cut this in half or more. I do not know your machine or have experience with it.

Assuming you are doing lots of finishing passes and that your roundness is not being influenced by surface finish.
Also squareness in mount during cutting and then mount in checking have to match perfectly.
No room for dust or lint here. Any tilt shows up as ovality.

Since 2.5 microns is bad, what is good?
Bob
 
Hi All:
First of all the OP states the error is 2.5 micron and then goobers the conversion to inches.
2.5 microns as some have pointed out correctly is about a tenth, or 0.0001"

That's not bad for a wire but not great either.

How it got that way is a subject of some conjecture but here is my own experience trying to make things accurately on such a machine.

Fundamentally, all high end wire EDM machines have exquisitely good motion control and can follow a path very accurately, but the outcome of that exquisite precision is not always translated to the same precision in the workpiece.

The most common culprit is material movement from stress release, and this occurs even during skim cuts and after unclamping the workpiece from the machine.

The next most common is the wire not going where it was expected or told to go and there are two principal reasons why.
First is the influence of flushing pressure on the sideways deflection of the wire.
The second is the clearance required between the wire guides and the wire so it's never EXACTLY where you think it is, it's only APPROXIMATELY where you think it is.

Next in importance is the machine's condition and the environmental stability.
If you imagine the motion task and appreciate the forces and cantilevers involved in driving a machine table with a workpiece around, you can begin to understand the magnitude of the problem; the corollary is that disrupting the system even a bit has magnified consequences so something as simple as a dragging tank seal can throw the whole motion control system out of specification enough to produce the error the OP is complaining of.

Certain machine designs are better for some tasks than others, so the Agie Vee giude system has advantages over the doughnut guides used by most others, and linear motors have advantages over ballscrews and etc etc, but pretty much every machine that states a given positioning precision and repeatability can hit that stated precision but ONLY if it's in good condition, and that's why wire EDM is so maintenance dependent.

Having said all that, the OP will need to make systematic tests to identify what the source of the error is and eliminate the possible variables one by one.
The best way to achieve that is to tap into the expertise of the OEM's engineers; they will best know how to to stage the tests to get to the bottom of his complaint.
Sadly all other approaches are not likely going to be successful; so that's how and where I'd start.

Likely, the very first thing the factory technicians will need to verify is that the machine is in good shape and moving within spec...after that the detective work can begin.

Cheers

Marcus
Implant Mechanix • Design & Innovation > HOME
Vancouver Wire EDM -- Wire EDM Machining
 
Hi All:
First of all the OP states the error is 2.5 micron and then goobers the conversion to inches.
2.5 microns as some have pointed out correctly is about a tenth, or 0.0001"

That's not bad for a wire but not great either.

..(removed)...

I guess I have been very sheltered in my career. :crazy:
I have worked in tenths, but normally within the range of "grind/polish .0002 for better fit/function.." Not this feature is .0001" out of round... I feel sorry for you guys doing this all the time. :bowdown:
 
Hi All:
First of all the OP states the error is 2.5 micron and then goobers the conversion to inches.
2.5 microns as some have pointed out correctly is about a tenth, or 0.0001"

That's not bad for a wire but not great either.

How it got that way is a subject of some conjecture but here is my own experience trying to make things accurately on such a machine.

Fundamentally, all high end wire EDM machines have exquisitely good motion control and can follow a path very accurately, but the outcome of that exquisite precision is not always translated to the same precision in the workpiece.

The most common culprit is material movement from stress release, and this occurs even during skim cuts and after unclamping the workpiece from the machine.

The next most common is the wire not going where it was expected or told to go and there are two principal reasons why.
First is the influence of flushing pressure on the sideways deflection of the wire.
The second is the clearance required between the wire guides and the wire so it's never EXACTLY where you think it is, it's only APPROXIMATELY where you think it is.

Next in importance is the machine's condition and the environmental stability.
If you imagine the motion task and appreciate the forces and cantilevers involved in driving a machine table with a workpiece around, you can begin to understand the magnitude of the problem; the corollary is that disrupting the system even a bit has magnified consequences so something as simple as a dragging tank seal can throw the whole motion control system out of specification enough to produce the error the OP is complaining of.

Certain machine designs are better for some tasks than others, so the Agie Vee giude system has advantages over the doughnut guides used by most others, and linear motors have advantages over ballscrews and etc etc, but pretty much every machine that states a given positioning precision and repeatability can hit that stated precision but ONLY if it's in good condition, and that's why wire EDM is so maintenance dependent.

Having said all that, the OP will need to make systematic tests to identify what the source of the error is and eliminate the possible variables one by one.
The best way to achieve that is to tap into the expertise of the OEM's engineers; they will best know how to to stage the tests to get to the bottom of his complaint.
Sadly all other approaches are not likely going to be successful; so that's how and where I'd start.

Likely, the very first thing the factory technicians will need to verify is that the machine is in good shape and moving within spec...after that the detective work can begin.

Cheers

Marcus
Implant Mechanix • Design & Innovation > HOME
Vancouver Wire EDM -- Wire EDM Machining

Flushing is a very real concern with accuracy and also secondary burn if there's not enough...too much and it'll vibrate like a guitar string lol, especially if the tension is off.
 
Hi Mike:
You wrote" I guess I have been very sheltered in my career. :crazy:
I have worked in tenths, but normally within the range of "grind/polish .0002 for better fit/function.." Not this feature is .0001" out of round... I feel sorry for you guys doing this all the time. :bowdown:"

Interestingly, this kind of work is not always so challenging as it's often presumed to be.
It requires a disciplined approach to working; it also requires excellent gear and metrology, but when you have those things it all gets a whole lot less intimidating.

When you must achieve tight tolerance requirements with the approach you describe it definitely is very skill dependent, but when you can command a toy like a wire EDM to just" take another tenth" and it can actually do so reliably, it's truly not that hard.
It's spendy for sure, and you need to pay attention to lots of subtle variables but it's not that sphincter clenching when it's part of an automated process.
Cheers

Marcus
Implant Mechanix • Design & Innovation > HOME
Vancouver Wire EDM -- Wire EDM Machining
 
Hi Mike:
You wrote" I guess I have been very sheltered in my career. :crazy:
I have worked in tenths, but normally within the range of "grind/polish .0002 for better fit/function.." Not this feature is .0001" out of round... I feel sorry for you guys doing this all the time. :bowdown:"

Interestingly, this kind of work is not always so challenging as it's often presumed to be.
It requires a disciplined approach to working; it also requires excellent gear and metrology, but when you have those things it all gets a whole lot less intimidating.

When you must achieve tight tolerance requirements with the approach you describe it definitely is very skill dependent, but when you can command a toy like a wire EDM to just" take another tenth" and it can actually do so reliably, it's truly not that hard.
It's spendy for sure, and you need to pay attention to lots of subtle variables but it's not that sphincter clenching when it's part of an automated process.
Cheers

Marcus
Implant Mechanix • Design & Innovation > HOME
Vancouver Wire EDM -- Wire EDM Machining
I agree. I have worked to what I feel close tollerances most of my 30+ years. A lot of people claim to working to .0001ths but have no way of measuring what they claim. I couldn't imagine measuring .0001 out of round. What is the positioning tollerances of such hole. I would love to watch such precise work and be shown the measured error. I don't argue such precision would love to see it in person.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
 








 
Back
Top