6 axis cnc backguage or 4
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    Default 6 axis cnc backguage or 4

    Seeing if anyone can give some useful advice on press brake back gauges.
    We do mostly architectural metal which involves some sheet metal brake work which is done on an old Guifil with automec back gauge. We are looking to buy a new machine as we are getting more precision prototype work which is a pain to do on the old machine so I'm looking at a new Accurpress 125 ton with a 4 axis backgauge.This could be upgraded to a 6 axis for about 20k but is this worth it and a must have. Quite frankly the 4 axis is going to make my life so much easier but I would hate to be kicking myself a year or 2 down the road if I didn't purchase this option.
    Thanks

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    I doubt you will need 6-axis for architectural work. It's much more suited to stage bending down the length of the bed. I think the part you are going to be kicking yourself over is getting a press brake with limited stroke instead of a direct acting press that can have 16" or more of ram travel.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TKassoc View Post
    I doubt you will need 6-axis for architectural work. It's much more suited to stage bending down the length of the bed. I think the part you are going to be kicking yourself over is getting a press brake with limited stroke instead of a direct acting press that can have 16" or more of ram travel.
    You're right that it's not needed for the architectural stuff. The ability to do small prototype projects quickly and easily and having several bending stations on the bed is what's useful as it's a pain to do it the way we are at the moment. I'm just not sure how necessary it is to have the Z(fingers) be able to move independently of each other at different heights. I'll have to look at the stroke length of the machine I'm looking at which is limited on my Guifil and causes some issues.

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    Manufacturers like to count the ram and sometimes deflect as axes.

    You need X, R, Z1, and Z2 axes at a minimum. I did tons of bending of complex parts with just X and manual R and Z axes and it sucked balls. X2 is definitely nice but can be a challenge to program without the right software on nonparallel bends.

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    Quote Originally Posted by alexf View Post
    I'll have to look at the stroke length of the machine I'm looking at which is limited on my Guifil and causes some issues.
    Since you said 125 tons, not 130, I'm assuming you're looking at an Accell, so it would have a 10" stroke and a 12" throat, and thus not as limited as the rocker arm style (Advantage model) that I think TKassoc is thinking of.

    If you were looking at an Advantage, it would be 8 and 8 respectively. For the Advantage, just about every other manufacturer blows Accurpress out of the water with stroke, throad, and between housings dimension (between housings being important for backgauge travel when setting up staged bends), many for less money.

    If you get the Accell, you get a bit more stroke, throat and between housing width - still less than some manufacturers, on par with others, but you pay a premium to get there over some of the other manufacturers. In other words, why Accurpress specifically?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fish On View Post
    Since you said 125 tons, not 130, I'm assuming you're looking at an Accell, so it would have a 10" stroke and a 12" throat, and thus not as limited as the rocker arm style (Advantage model) that I think TKassoc is thinking of.

    If you were looking at an Advantage, it would be 8 and 8 respectively. For the Advantage, just about every other manufacturer blows Accurpress out of the water with stroke, throad, and between housings dimension (between housings being important for backgauge travel when setting up staged bends), many for less money.

    If you get the Accell, you get a bit more stroke, throat and between housing width - still less than some manufacturers, on par with others, but you pay a premium to get there over some of the other manufacturers. In other words, why Accurpress specifically?
    Thanks for the great info. I'm not particular about brands but I want to make sure that there is the support there for the machine. I also looked at the trumpf 2100 which has a nice price point,a little cheaper than Accurpress. If you have any other brand suggestions I'm interested to hear. I like all the modern software as i believe it will give me the ability to put a less skilled user in front of it for the simple stuff.
    It seems to me with my limited experience on press brakes that having more stroke is very beneficial.
    At the moment I take step files given to me from clients and use Fusion to get the flat pattern as I waterjet cut everything in house. So far that's been working pretty good but having the ability for an operator to be guided through each bend would be nice if i had a job with lots of parts that I don't have the time to do myself.
    The struggle I have now is the amount of time and set up just to get a few good parts with consistent bends. Having some sort of crowning adjustment is needed as the shimming process is far too time consuming.

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    Would a folder be better suited to your work ?

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    Probably not as I do need to bend thicker parts occasionly

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    Quote Originally Posted by alexf View Post
    Probably not as I do need to bend thicker parts occasionly
    Numbers....we like real numbers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by digger doug View Post
    Numbers....we like real numbers.
    Typical stuff would be 1/4" plate with the occasional up to 1/2" for small bent parts. I also will make custom tooling for radius bends which seem to work well on press brakes given the versatility. I'm less knowledgeable about folding machines but I'm constantly surprised about the amount of machines out there I've never seen before considering all the time I spend looking at them on the internet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by alexf View Post
    Typical stuff would be 1/4" plate with the occasional up to 1/2" for small bent parts. I also will make custom tooling for radius bends which seem to work well on press brakes given the versatility. I'm less knowledgeable about folding machines but I'm constantly surprised about the amount of machines out there I've never seen before considering all the time I spend looking at them on the internet.
    That's better.

    I have seen folders stated capacity of 1/4".

    The folders are popular around here with the steel roofing people.

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    For me it was Amada or Trumph. The Trumph is an end frame machine and the 3100, 10' has a smaller footprint than the 8' Amada. The Amada is a C frame and stage bending was not good for me. 60+-" travel. Trumph has almost full left right finger travel.
    The new online only Trumph has an awesome price point, possibly would have been my choice. But my machine has moveable punch holders that make deep box bends possible.

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    We ordered sectionalized punch spacers for our new brake to do this. Combined with the taller tooling it has we can bend deeper boxes than we could on our older brake with movable punch holders. The hydraulic punch holder on our brake is wonderful, but the die rail is pretty unimpressive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Strostkovy View Post
    We ordered sectionalized punch spacers for our new brake to do this. Combined with the taller tooling it has we can bend deeper boxes than we could on our older brake with movable punch holders. The hydraulic punch holder on our brake is wonderful, but the die rail is pretty unimpressive.
    That's the one thing I don't like about the Trumpf is it seems that it would be restrictive when forming anything deep. The Amada set up seems to have the most versatility which is what I want out of any equipment I buy as I never know what's coming in the door.

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    I have a 3100 Trumph with sectionalized punch holders. They can be taken out or slid side to side if needed. There is a limit on how practical it is to form a deep box. Take a huge hit in waste.
    20200714_154043.jpg


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