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Thread: Barton vs GMA

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    Default Barton vs GMA

    With the big price increase for Barton garnet, we are looking for a new supplier. Does anybody have experience with both Barton and GMA garnets and are they comparable? I'm currently using Barton 60 HPA.

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    Yeah, kind of a felt the sting a little bit in the last 80HPA quote too, but to be honest Barton has been good in keeping me in the supply over the last 12 months where GMA has had problems making good on their delivery. Maybe our 40K pounds a year just wasn't enough to garner interest from GMA to keep our business. GMA seemed to cut OK, but my impression is it is a little more dirty with more fines. Put equal amounts of abrasive and water in two glass jars and give them a shake.

    To me a reliable supply stream seems worth the price. However, Last year GMA was supposed to bring online a process and package plant near Philly which might serve you well.

    I've sampled the Staurolite material. I don't hate it, but I'm not in love with it either. It's just my perception, but I feel that it eats through nozzles faster. What I really miss is the Barton MG1 material on our mostly sub 1 inch stainless and aluminum. We are cutting with a Wardjet which we love backed by an older low hour Flow intensifier.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jmullett View Post
    Yeah, kind of a felt the sting a little bit in the last 80HPA quote too, but to be honest Barton has been good in keeping me in the supply over the last 12 months where GMA has had problems making good on their delivery. Maybe our 40K pounds a year just wasn't enough to garner interest from GMA to keep our business. GMA seemed to cut OK, but my impression is it is a little more dirty with more fines. Put equal amounts of abrasive and water in two glass jars and give them a shake.

    To me a reliable supply stream seems worth the price. However, Last year GMA was supposed to bring online a process and package plant near Philly which might serve you
    well.

    I've sampled the Staurolite material. I don't hate it, but I'm not in love with it either. It's just my perception, but I feel that it eats through nozzles faster. What I really miss is the Barton MG1 material on our mostly sub 1 inch stainless and aluminum. We are cutting with a Wardjet which we love backed by an older low hour Flow intensifier.

    J.

    I too am a little suspect of the Staurolite blend that Barton is introducing into their product. It seems like my carbide is wearing out quicker too.

    The GMA rep says that they since they are never played with the Indian garnet team that they are free from those suppliers worries. After I deplete my last 4400 pound sack of Barton 80HPA I think I will try some GMA.

    Tom

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    Quote Originally Posted by TFPace View Post
    J.

    The GMA rep says that they since they are never played with the Indian garnet team that they are free from those suppliers worries.
    Tom
    Yeah that's what I thought too, but GMA couldn't keep their obligations to me fulfilling a 5 skid 11,000 pound order. My perception is they took advantage of the supply situation to pick up some of the larger Indian garnet user's accounts at the expense of their existing customers. GMA just couldn't keep me in supply when I needed it. It would take a lot to convince me to go back. Hope you have better luck.

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    GMA garnet is working for us. Since we pick it up ourselves unreliable shipping isn't a problem for us.

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    what flavor of garnet are you using?? I am currently running 85 but I'm thinking of switching to one of the 80's or this 'pro-cut 60' blend.

    Anyone out there using the Pro-cut 60?? I think it's kind of a newer product...a bit more of a coarser blend.

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    I'm using procut 60. I was using Barton HPA 60 before.

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    ...and what do you think of it? Why do you prefer the coarser abrasive?

    I'm still pretty new at the water jet game so I'm hungry for opinions and knowledge....thanks

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    I just opened a waterjet shop (Nov. 2017) in Conway AR. I started with Barton but switched after the big price jump. GMA had it at my shop within 3 days and I think it is cutting great! I use the 80 MESH.

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    I know this is a old thread but.. what is everyone using to extract the garnet? I have had a company come out twice to extract it but looking a other option now. SRs from Omax or the Extractor? Any info? Thanks

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    We are using an Oberlin filter press with an agitation system on 2 OMAX 5555. Oberlin sucks out the water and garnet, dries the garnet and dumps into a box for easy transport to landfill. Clean water get's pumped back through a heat exchanger for cooling and then into the agitation system. If anyone want to know more shoot me a PM and I can explain. It is absolutely amazing to not have to deal with the muck and mud of the OMAX SRS. We are running 3 shifts.

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    We have been using this and it works great so far.

    BARTON's Abrasive Removal Tool removes garnet abrasive easily | BARTON

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    Quote Originally Posted by jmullett View Post
    Yeah that's what I thought too, but GMA couldn't keep their obligations to me fulfilling a 5 skid 11,000 pound order. My perception is they took advantage of the supply situation to pick up some of the larger Indian garnet user's accounts at the expense of their existing customers. GMA just couldn't keep me in supply when I needed it. It would take a lot to convince me to go back. Hope you have better luck.

    Who are you using now? I think the Starolite that Barton is blending into their HPA80 is wearing my carbide out quicker than using pure garnet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Waterjet2017 View Post
    I know this is a old thread but.. what is everyone using to extract the garnet? I have had a company come out twice to extract it but looking a other option now. SRs from Omax or the Extractor? Any info? Thanks
    IMO the OMAX SRS leaves a lot to be desired. The Oberlin system sounds interesting.

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    Just on basis that the spent Garnet comes out dry is worth every penny. I never actually had to do it but I can imagine that dealing with the wet slurry of mud has to be cumbersome and inconvenient.

    If I let the Oberlin run over the weekend while we aren't cutting, I come in to a completely clear water jet table. I can see the bottom of the tank. There's some small piles of Garnet in between the eductors but there's not much more than that. Dry spent Garnet goes into DOT boxes and we truck it off to the landfill. The clean return water form the Oberlin goes through a heat exchanger to keep the catch tank cool. We are cutting 3 shifts 5 days a week and rarely does the catch tank get above 85 degrees. It's pretty awesome, IMO. If anyone wants more details PM me and I'd be happy to share what we got going on.
    Last edited by TurboGuy; 08-10-2018 at 10:35 AM.

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    Thanks for the replies maybe a better question is what is the best value? I am a one man show!

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    Regarding abrasive. I've used Barton 80HPX (crushed from hard rock), 80HPA (alluvial), Shape Ecojet 80 (shapegarnet.com), and two other no-brand 80 mesh products. For our relatively low performance setup - .011" orifice, .03" mix tube, 50ksi, the best garnet choice has been whatever is cheapest but still clean and consistent enough to feed through the .03" mix tube. In our nozzle configuration I found no benefit to the HPX - I think the difference is more significant for higher pressure cutting. The two different no-brand pallets caused frequent mix tube clogs, I'll stick with the brands, the hassle outweighs any savings.

    As a small shop we stick with 55 lb bags, not bulk.

    I like the Barton paper packaging as it's easier to open and pour without contamination. The Ecojet packaging is more fuss to open and pour clean, but it's what we buy on account of logistical concerns - cheaper to get it to our location.

    Regarding 60 mesh, that's used with a larger mix tube, for faster cutting in thick material. That seems to be a common practice, esp. for shops that cut thick metal, i.e. consistently 1" or more. We stick with the .03" mix tube as the smaller kerf width is significant in much of the work we do - mostly cutting parts from sheet to 1/2" with pop rivet holes, small tap pilot holes. The .03" mix tube enables cutting small enough holes precise enough to avoid the need to drill to size. 80 mesh is the best grit size for a .03" mix tube.

    Regarding garnet removal. None of the conventional choices particularly suit our needs. The BART and similar generate an untenable amount of waste water - they gloss over that detail. Not an issue for many folks. I'm likely to eventually buy an OMAX SRS but without the hopper, as their hopper accommodates liners but not forklift-liftable bulk bags. Will make our own hopper that directly loads a bulk bag, like the Ebbco extractor. OMAX expects you to dump the hopper in a dumpster, which again works for most folks, but we bag it. For the last 10 years, every couple months we let the tank settle overnight, pump out the clear water, shovel it into barrels, then dump the barrels into bulk bags.

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    Since we are on the subject, has anyone tried Bellemere Garnet? I think they are based in Canada. Their sales guy has been courting us a bit. Price is slightly higher than Barton and GMA but they include shipping and it's the same price for alluvial and crushed.

    Just wondering if anyone has used their product and what they thought of it? Thinking about trying to get some samples from them.

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    The oberlin system is pricey. somewhere around 50k give or take. I wasn't involved with the plannin for the system so I don't really know exactly. Check out MCRL out of Michigan. They have a solids removal system that is significantly cheaper than the Oberlin set-up that we have and from what I hear works pretty good. And they have some great customer service as well.

    What do you have for a water jet machine?


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