Betenbender press brake & Dies 190 ton x 12'
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  1. #1
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    Default Betenbender press brake & Dies 190 ton x 12'

    I'm getting ready to pull the trigger on a brand new Betenbender Press Brake....
    I'm a general welding and fabricating shop, most of the work we do is a plus or minus 1/16", some times 1/8" is good and there are times it need to be right on but usually 1/16" is okay.
    Do I need a C & C back gauge.

    I want brand new dies, I'm thinking about a 4 way bottom die, a straight punch for the heavy stuff and a gooseneck punch,
    I'm thinking that I want the 12' goose neck punch to be in pieces to allow me to do box type bends, any thought as to why it would be a bad idea to cut this die into pieces.

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    You for sure want a backguage. Not getting a backguage on a press brake would be like having a shear without a squaring arm. And you want it CNC controlled.

    My have been subbing out brake work for 10 years and am finally buying my own. In my time buying time on brakes, I am most familiar with Amada, Trumpf and Accurpress. I have done alot of research and have most likely decided to go with Accurl. The main frame is German steel and it is welded, stress relieved and machined in China. The rest of the parts of the machine are all mainstream, big brands for the hydraulics, electrical and the CNC control. Bosch, Siemens, Schneider, Delem. These are all available in the US by industrial suppliers.

    This machine has CNC crowning and Wila hydraulic clamping for sectional tooling. It has very fast approach and return speed and a very large open height for deep box bends. The backguage is a 6 axis guage that can go anywhere in free space to locate your part for bending. This is a very modern, highly accurate press brake. Below is the USA distributor for Accurl.

    Dakota Hood
    Regional Sales Director
    801-618-5058
    Home

    This is a video showing what a 6 axis backguage works.
    Accurpress Accell 6 Axis - YouTube

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    Have you looked at a re-built Cincinnati or other late model machine ?

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    Jimmy Popp, I don't get those kind of jobs, I definitely need a back gauge without a doubt.
    Whats your thought on a gooseneck punch cut up in pieces, I was thinking a 2", 4", 5-1/2", 7-1/2", a 9-1/2", 11-1/2", 23-1/2", 35-1/2", 47-1/2 and so on to a balance of 144"
    I want to go with odd size lengths because most boxes that I bend will be in and even number.
    __________________________________________________ ____________________________________

    Digger Doug, I dont want to inherit someone elses problem.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Portable Welder View Post

    Digger Doug, I dont want to inherit someone elses problem.
    I could have sworn I have seen a couple of places that completely
    tear down, re-machine, and re-build the whole machine, new electronics, updated back gage too.

    I have seen the Betenbender up close, and I'm not impressed
    with the it.
    Last edited by digger doug; 09-06-2017 at 08:21 PM.

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    I am still researching tooling myself.

    I have heard good things about this tooling company.
    Mate Precision Tooling - Sheet Metal Fabrication Tools

    If you don't need an advanced backguage, a CNC backguage X axis (front to back) and a manually adjusted R axis (up and down) is all you need. Z1 and Z2 axis (side to side) is done by manually by reaching through the brake and moving the "fingers" where you need them.

    The money you save on the backguage, invest in a hydraulic upper clamping for sectional tooling. This is exactly what you mentioned although you can go down to .25" wide. If you are doing a variety of size pans, having hydraulic clamping and sectional tooling will really allow you to do production on your brake. Many different size pans very quickly. Like just a couple minutes between setups. Wilson has a very competitively priced upper sectional tool holding. Press Brake Tooling Catalog | Wilson Tool

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    Don't guess on the sectional tooling front, look at the std lengths and cut it at that, its a proven good combination. Sectional bottom tooling can also be bloody usefull.

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    How important is it to have a back gauge that will pull back away from the part as it starts the bend.

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    Esential, if you want to bend anything with a lip on it. Think bending a top hat type section. Extra marks if the stops are sorta sprung loaded such that if you get it wrong they just pop out and can be popped back in too!

    Normally you have it so it nips the part then retracts the stop then bends.

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    Okay, thanks to all that have replied, my loan should be coming through soon, after talking to the local press brake dealers, he says that I cannot go by the old tonnage calculators to bend plate, the old calculators say it takes approximately 15.5 ton to bend 1/4" plate with a 2" bottom die, the new calculator put out by accurpress says it takes closer to 20.xx tons to bend the new harder mild steel due to more of the steel comes from recyclables causing it to be harder !!!!!! does any one here notice that your press brake cant do what it use to....

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    I have always used the rule of thumb:
    "1/4" mild steel, one foot long, 20 tons, 8 times thickness
    for die opening"

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    Betenbender VS. Standard Industrial for a press brake.

    I really want to get a new brake and want it to be american made..... any comments good or bad on which one to buy, the machinery dealer is trying to steer me towards a 250 ton Standard verses the 190 ton Betenbender, saying that the 190 ton might not bend the 10' of 1/4" plate with a 2" bottom die.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Portable Welder View Post
    , saying that the 190 ton might not bend the 10' of 1/4" plate with a 2" bottom die.
    Are you going to do this everyday ?

    Or is this just an example problem ?

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    Digger Doug, this isn't what I will do every single day, there will be times that I need to do less and days when I need to bend 1/2" plate.
    I'm just a general welding company that does whatever someone brings through the door so to speak, I also have 2 portable welding rigs... I have 20 UPS facilities that I do work at along with a few asphalt and concrete plants..... not to mention the 100 other customers that I've had over the last 30 years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Portable Welder View Post
    Digger Doug, this isn't what I will do every single day, there will be times that I need to do less and days when I need to bend 1/2" plate.
    I'm just a general welding company that does whatever someone brings through the door so to speak, I also have 2 portable welding rigs... I have 20 UPS facilities that I do work at along with a few asphalt and concrete plants..... not to mention the 100 other customers that I've had over the last 30 years.
    That's better, so the 1/4" x 10' is an occasional thing.

    I would not try to do it every day with the 190 ton machine.

    Neighbor's weld shop started getting work, allot of angles to bend from 1/2" plate
    random lengths up to 10', a truck load a day, 40k lbs.

    They got in an older 400 ton mechanical for just that work.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Portable Welder View Post
    Betenbender VS. Standard Industrial for a press brake.

    I really want to get a new brake and want it to be american made..... any comments good or bad on which one to buy, the machinery dealer is trying to steer me towards a 250 ton Standard verses the 190 ton Betenbender, saying that the 190 ton might not bend the 10' of 1/4" plate with a 2" bottom die.
    My 76 year old 150 ton Cincinnati mechanical has no trouble doing a 10'x1/4" to 90.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lars66 View Post
    My 76 year old 150 ton Cincinnati mechanical has no trouble doing a 10'x1/4" to 90.
    What die opening ?

    And those mechanicals are known to put out allot more than rated.

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    2" die opening. By the book I have on tonnage required I have pushed it up to 165 ton.

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    OP
    Your work and Jimmy Pops work are worlds apart. He will be looking at European tooling for air bending at +- .0004. You require American tooling at+-.004. You will be buying lengths of punch/die and using as is, or cutting to length as needed.
    Hydraulic tool holders are real nice but not needed for your work. Manual quick change is fine and sometimes the clamps can be moved side to side for deeper boxes. Not so with hydraulic as the holder is in a continuous length, and $$,$$$.$$ to buy and add to machine.
    As a basic welding shop as you described I see most of your bending as bottom bending. Cnc back gauge is a must and many are mounted with a heavy spring to compensate for a lower flange hitting it.
    You can do very fine work on a machine such as a Beten, or Standard. But if you are going to bend it, hit it with a sledge hammer, weld it to a truck body? Betenbender or Standard will work fine. Want a very complex series of bends? Trumpf or Amada at many times the cost. Tooling up a 10' Trumpf or Amada with hydraulic holder and segmented tooling can easily cost far more than the other two machines.
    BTW, I have a Trumpf 10 footer and really like it.

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    Thanks for the comments, I ordered the 240 Ton x 12' Betenbender with 5 station ( Go To ) memory for the ram and back gauge.
    I bought a 4 way bottom die with a 1,2,3 and 4" opening, I bought a straight punch for doing the heavy stuff and a goose neck punch that the guy said will do 1/4" material.

    I'm having the goose neck punch cut in a variety of lengths so I can treat it like a box pan brake, my punch sizes are 2", 3.5", 5.5", 7.5", 9.5", 11.5", 23.5", 47.5" and a 33.5" which totals up to 144", I kept the die lenghts a 1/2" short to be able to bend a pan out of 1/4" plate, so if I need to bend a 12" box, I will use the 11-1/2" punch, a 24" pan will need the 23-1/2" punch.
    So, am I thinking right to have done this... keep in mind, most tanks that I will bend up will be 10, 11 or 12 ga.


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