Can’t quite understand these press brake dies

Cannonmn · Dec 5, 2020

Got quite a few press brake dies and with most, their function is pretty easy to tell, however...

Pls look at these three. Please tell me about them. “A” I can’t figure out, it is a lower die but what’s the form of the upper and what does the pair form in sheet metal?

B and C are identical in form but differ in how their setscrews are installed. I’m guessing both are lowers for holding smaller die sections. B has a pair of opposing setscrews about every foot. C has setscrews on one side only, but spaced much more closely than in B. What’s different between B and C, if anything, regarding use? Is only one short die section at a time used in these setscrew-infested long dies?

John Morris has shared 3 photos with you! | Flickr

Scruffy887 · Dec 5, 2020

A, B and some of C look like ???? something you may use in the future if it was bought cheap. What brand of press? And never run infested tooling. Your tool may already be infested.
Tooling all looks slightly rusted and this may be coming from a general welding shop. You can make general type bends with it. Maybe.

gbent · Dec 5, 2020

Look like spacers to me.

Cannonmn · Dec 5, 2020

Scruffy887 said:
A, B and some of C look like ???? something you may use in the future if it was bought cheap. What brand of press? And never run infested tooling. Your tool may already be infested.
Tooling all looks slightly rusted and this may be coming from a general welding shop. You can make general type bends with it. Maybe.

The rust is powder that washes off with atf, just had no time to treat it. Press is Di Acro 25T, 6 ft. We have about 35 long dies and 60 short ones, all different, and a 22” and a 36” urethane lower, so we should be able to make a few different bends once we understand what die does what. If there are books that go into detail on die forms, howto, etc. I’ll buy one or two.

Cannonmn · Dec 6, 2020

If anyone has experience using urethane lower dies like the two pictured here, pls let me know if there are any particular rules for using those.

More photos:

John Morris has shared 7 photos with you! | Flickr

and some of the shiny ones

John Morris has shared 8 photos with you! | Flickr

Cannonmn · Dec 6, 2020

Here’s one chapter of a $77. book of the type I want, but I can probably find a good condition. Used cy a lot cheaper. This is exactly the kind of info I need.

https://www.hanserpublications.com/...amentals of Press Brake Tooling 2E_Rapien.pdf

Best price new on Eboo here, 61.50 free shipping, I bought one. Didn’t find a used one.

https://www.ebay.com/p/99533273

dian · Dec 6, 2020

Design of Jigs, Fixtures and Press Tools by K. Venkataraman - PDF Drive

R. Dan · Dec 6, 2020

Cannonmn said:
Here’s one chapter of a $77. book of the type I want, but I can probably find a good condition. Used cy a lot cheaper. This is exactly the kind of info I need.

https://www.hanserpublications.com/...amentals of Press Brake Tooling 2E_Rapien.pdf

Best price new on Eboo here, 61.50 free shipping, I bought one. Didn’t find a used one.

https://www.ebay.com/p/99533273

2nd edition, brand new hardcover on Amazon - $64.12: https://www.amazon.com/Fundamentals...p-156990474X/dp/156990474X/ref=dp_ob_title_bk

JST · Dec 6, 2020

Well, I see a couple of gooseneck dies, a standard die, what is probably a holder/adaptor for short section dies for box and pan type work, some dies that may be for top-hat sections, and maybe a "joggling" die.

And?

Oops, no joggling die, mistook a shadow.

Strostkovy · Dec 6, 2020

I'm a brake operator and may be able to help out a bit. What are you wanting to do with this stuff mainly?

Cannonmn · Dec 6, 2020

Thanks! We have over 60 machine tools, many are missing belt guards, cover plates, etc which we’ll build. For next few months we’ll be trying different metal forming ops just to train ourselves. One thing I’d like to be able to do soon is use our urethane dies because it seems like they have more versatility than solid steel lowers.

Strostkovy · Dec 7, 2020

Sort of. I do step bends often (small bends one after another) to form large raddii and after a quick hit with an orbital sander you're good to go. I would definitely use the urethane dies for forming large radii with step bending though. Honestly probably pretty fun to make belt covers that way, but be sure to have some spare blanks because error is accumulative.

From my old job where they used these I think they had some issues with repeatability, but they wore out their block by doing too sharp of bends in too thick of material. Be aware that they do wear out, and they require significantly more tonnage to make a bend. I would not recommend using them for sharp bends in anything but very thin stock, to avoid wear. I was not an actual operator at that shop though so my direct experience with urethane dies is limited.

The only catch with the other tooling I see is that it may be 90 degrees exactly and not 85-88 to allow for springback. You'll want to check that with a square.

Cannonmn · Dec 8, 2020

Interesting article on tool selection

The rules of press brake tool selection

DDoug · Dec 8, 2020

Cannonmn said:
Interesting article on tool selection

The rules of press brake tool selection

Not very.

I would not put much worth in that "advertising only" rag.

Design some of your own, doo the layouts on CAD.

Cannonmn · Dec 8, 2020

Another interesting (except to Doug!) article

Bending Basics: 6 steps to successful die selection for press brakes

Cannonmn · Dec 8, 2020

Another (Doug excluded) Finding the perfect die opening

DDoug · Dec 8, 2020

Cannonmn said:
Another interesting (except to Doug!) article

Bending Basics: 6 steps to successful die selection for press brakes

Cannonmn said:
Another (Doug excluded) Finding the perfect die opening

O.K. Now your just spamming.

You wouldn't know a good technical article if it hit you.

You asked, I took the time to explain, you snub me ?.... :nutter:

Go back to dumpster diving for your "tooling".

Cannonmn · Dec 8, 2020

digger doug said:
O.K. Now your just spamming.

You wouldn't know a good technical article if it hit you.

You asked, I took the time to explain, you snub me ?....

Go back to dumpster diving for your "tooling".

Well Douggie don’t misquote me now, I wrote “interesting” and as a total sheet-metal novice, they have important info about which I was clueless. If you can quote technical errors in those articles, let’s have it.

Otherwise your typical negativity is par for the course and I really wouldn’t expect anything else. When I first came to PM several years ago you made some positive contributions, if I recall correctly, to my thread on the Snow tapping machine, but after that you seemed to go downhill fast. I do hope you can get that burr out from your saddle someday!

Strostkovy · Dec 8, 2020

I'm with Doug on this one mostly. A lot of the things it says you need aren't important, and the radii it recommends for steel is too tight and will crack on the edges. Also, it suggest straight punches instead of gooseneck punches for thick material which isn't necessary.

I didn't read the whole thing. I can give my input on it after work.

Cannonmn · Dec 8, 2020

Thx, I’ll annotate those articles with your comments before I put hard-copies in the shop.

I’m so ignerunt I had to work on difficult terms like “v die opening.” Seems clear enuf for a v die you can draw with all straight lines but where is the opening measured on v dies where the top is radiused on both sides so side view looks like lower-case “m”?

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