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    monarchist I bought it used. it is pipe size 20' lengths and has a seam, might be a might be different steel don't know but its defiantly not drill stem. I have that also buts its 4.5 od. it was originally used for cathodic protection wells for the final seal . it doesn't have couplers so its less likely to scrape expensive stuff down hole. I used it for pumping cement grout down well annuluses no coupling less likely to hang up . but I can get flush joint pvc thats so much lighter easier to clamp and if it breaks its not as big of deal for some reason. the steel stuff hasn't been used in several years.

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    Bore and install the pvc, then push the wick up that.
    The pvc will crush and distort but the wick will still be there.

    Use directional boring and daylight the far end, attach a pull cable and pull the wick back through.

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    Quote Originally Posted by idacal View Post
    the steel stuff hasn't been used in several years.
    Thanks. Seems my core drilling ken hasn't been used in 55 years. And... you know "drillers" and a hard-driving life-style? Or at least it certainly was THEN... so I suspect I am the better for it..



    Bill

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    Quote Originally Posted by Miguels244 View Post
    Bore and install the pvc, then push the wick up that.
    The pvc will crush and distort but the wick will still be there.

    Use directional boring and daylight the far end, attach a pull cable and pull the wick back through.
    May or may not work.

    Can't get over thinking even a serious network of 'wicks' is akin to trying to divert the Potomac River through used Mickey D soda straws stuffed with salvaged paper napkin though. Budget sort of thing.

    NEW water arrives FAST and OFTEN out that way. Wicks are by nature not FAST. That's why we call them 'wicks' instead of pipes.

    Might just as well start a Mole-breeding or Muskrat ranch.

    Or open it up to dirt-bike and ATV races. Those'll cut you drainage channels of a sort in about two days, consider Earth shifting under wheel a neat challenge.

    Even buy hot dogs and cold drinks..

    Bill

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    Quote Originally Posted by Monarchist View Post
    May or may not work.

    Can't get over thinking even a serious network of 'wicks' is akin to trying to divert the Potomac River through used Mickey D soda straws stuffed with salvaged paper napkin though. Budget sort of thing.

    NEW water arrives FAST and OFTEN out that way. Wicks are by nature not FAST. That's why we call them 'wicks' instead of pipes.

    Might just as well start a Mole-breeding or Muskrat ranch.

    Or open it up to dirt-bike and ATV races. Those'll cut you drainage channels of a sort in about two days, consider Earth shifting under wheel a neat challenge.

    Even buy hot dogs and cold drinks..

    Bill
    I'm not really commenting on the usefulness of wick systems...this is a losing fight against active geology.
    Just suggesting methods for installation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Miguels244 View Post
    I'm not really commenting on the usefulness of wick systems...this is a losing fight against active geology.
    Just suggesting methods for installation.
    'Losing fight' may be the key to salvation.

    America is chock full of benighted air-heads who LOVE to identify themselves with 'losing fights' as some form of penance-in-advance celestial savings account that exists only between their own ears.

    Put out the word that the community can only be saved if everyone recycles their Micky D soda straw and mails 'em in, twenty at a go, postage at their own cost.

    Legions of beatification seeking Sandalistas do just that. Micky D must issue about 30 million a day.

    Can soda straws drain that mound? NFW.

    But soon you has a solid intake of consistent plastic for recycling. USPS even gets to do somethign more useful than carry junk-mail as unread fodder for onpassing to the local recycling center.

    That plastic has cash value. So, too, the envelopes it arrived in.

    Done right - you could turn over the advertising to Obama campaign staff long out of work - for-sure they know how to sell the hell outta hollow stuff.

    Time could come the revenoo earned could relocate every oscillating richard on-site to the Costa Smerelda and fund their Eyetalian VAT hit to boot.

    Don't laugh it off.

    Selling empties of one kind or another - stale ideas to retread condoms - and at a premium, yet - has been working for successive waves of folks here inside the Capitol beltway for the forty-plus years I have been watching.

    Add a Church of some n'er before seen flavour, and gain a tax advantage, too.

    Bill

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    Quote Originally Posted by Monarchist View Post
    'Losing fight' may be the key to salvation.

    America is chock full of benighted air-heads who LOVE to identify themselves with 'losing fights' as some form of penance-in-advance celestial savings account that exists only between their own ears......

    ....Add a Church of some n'er before seen flavour, and gain a tax advantage, too.

    Bill
    A belly laugh to start my day. Ya hit the nail on the head again, Bill.

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    There are remarkable and sometimes poignant fights taken up- geology wins in the end..
    Borrowed time doomed this village before it was even build when the glaciers left PA:

    The Last House on Holland Island | Sometimes Interesting



    The issue of the OP is not unique to the Pacific Nw.

    Read this report:

    http://maryland.coastsmart.org/wp-co...LRguidance.pdf

    The author soberly reports that the only viable remediation option is to abandon properties as the cost to intervene exceeds the asset values.
    The OP may not know it but a similar decision string is no doubt occurring in his instance or the state would have taken this up and funded the effort..

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    Soil mechanics is a intresting thing, a lot of it does not work as it first seams too.

    To get the landslide stopped you probably only have to remove a tiny amount of water compared to whats there. Once the water level as a percentage is reduced a certain amount the soils lock back together as one mass and not a load of liquid soup - fluid quick sand. So long as the sites then drained and monitored as drained well enough it will be stable - safe, risk comes in periods during - after sustained rainfall, the drainange must drain the water as fast as it arrives, thats were you need not just good subsurface drainage, but also as much surface drainage as you can get to divert the water from going down there to start with.

    Wick drains can shift a surprising amount of water, yeah not as much as a cased tube, but they do better a in some ways as its porous over its whole length.

    What makes em good for things like this is speed, you litrally punch em on in there, drilling auguring is too slow, most of the rigs i was around would push out a 10 meter length in sub a minute and be onto the next one. Its common that when there used on sites they number in the hundreds or thousands, its not like boring a couple of wells. Typical day several hundred vertical drains would be pushed in there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by adama View Post
    Soil mechanics is a intresting thing, a lot of it does not work as it first seams too.

    To get the landslide stopped you probably only have to remove a tiny amount of water compared to whats there. Once the water level as a percentage is reduced a certain amount the soils lock back together as one mass and not a load of liquid soup - fluid quick sand. So long as the sites then drained and monitored as drained well enough it will be stable - safe, risk comes in periods during - after sustained rainfall, the drainange must drain the water as fast as it arrives, thats were you need not just good subsurface drainage, but also as much surface drainage as you can get to divert the water from going down there to start with.

    Wick drains can shift a surprising amount of water, yeah not as much as a cased tube, but they do better a in some ways as its porous over its whole length.

    What makes em good for things like this is speed, you litrally punch em on in there, drilling auguring is too slow, most of the rigs i was around would push out a 10 meter length in sub a minute and be onto the next one. Its common that when there used on sites they number in the hundreds or thousands, its not like boring a couple of wells. Typical day several hundred vertical drains would be pushed in there.
    Interesting, that is exactly what the geotechnical engineer said. This slope had not slid until we had the strongest El Nino in 20 years. There had also been changes to the stormwater drainage that wasn't engineered. That is being fixed. It is simply a tipping point. We need to get back under that point. Wick drains are the first part of the mitigation. As the slide stabilizes, traditional horizontal drains can be placed. Cutoff trenches will keep a large amount of water out of the slide. While I get that some sites can not be stabilized in a cost effective way, other sites have been successfully stabilized.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SirElliott View Post
    While I get that some sites can not be stabilized in a cost effective way, other sites have been successfully stabilized.
    Surely they have. And much more than that.

    Pull aerial photos of Hong Kong & Kowloon at ten-year intervals for the past 50 years.

    Entire mountains have been put into what was once harbour and is now under skyscrapers. Or an airport.

    See also "Panama Canal" or "Suez Canal", for that matter.

    In each case a massive headcount of ordinary folk stood to gain 'something' and a very few well-funded investors stood to gain GREAT FORTUNES.

    It is back to economics again. Not technology.

    Can you AFFORD to do this?

    And even if so?

    Just WHAT makes it a better use of resources than the more common white-bread approach of packing up and MOVING to a less problematic place to park yerazz?

    Bill

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trboatworks View Post
    The OP may not know it but a similar decision string is no doubt occurring in his instance or the state would have taken this up and funded the effort..
    What state funds? The only hazard mitigation funds in Washington State that we are aware of, is the Hazard Mitigation Grant Program (HMGP). That is actually a FEMA program, with a state (and local) match.

    The deadline for PRE applications is June 1 at 5:00 Pacific Time. Our application went in last week. Pre-applicants will be notified by June 22nd if their project can move to the application phase. Applications are due by October 4th 2016. After review at the state level, the applications are submitted to FEMA on January 10, 2017 So I don't see that the State has decided that this slide isn't eligible for mitigation funding under HMGP. That might not be until after January 2017.

    Not hardly a fast process. This is why the wick drains are being placed.

    It sounds like you are aware of other funds available from Washington State for hazard mitigation. Please let us know what agency has mitigation funds that we missed. I guarantee we will drive to Olympia immediately to start the process.

    It seems strange that the State would have made a decision on funding a hazard mitigation program, without asking for information from the people on the ground.

    Maybe you are thinking of FEMA Disaster Funds, which also go through Washington State Emergency Management. Under the Stafford Act, those funds require a Presidential Disaster Declaration. Washington State has had multiple Presidential Disasters including 2 in the last year, DR-4249 and DR-4253.

    A cruel twist of the law is that the landslide must actually release and cause substantial damage, BEFORE Disaster Assistance can be implemented. Because its pending, it falls under HMGP.

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    I sent you a message about the pipe.

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    Glaciers again....:

    "Following the glacier's retreat and allowing for the lake to be released, the river carved out most of the clay and silt deposits, leaving the former delta "hanging" approximately 650 ft (200 m) above the current valley floor.[51] When the sand portion of a deposit has very little clay or "fines" to cement it together, it is structurally weak, leaving the area around it vulnerable. Such an area is also sensitive to water accumulation, increasing the internal "pore" pressure and subsequently contributing to ground failure. Water infiltrating from the surface will flow through the surface, save for contact with the less permeable clay, allowing the water to accumulate and form a zone of stability weakness.
    Such variations in pore pressure and water flux are one of the primary factors leading to slope failure. In case of the area of the Stillaguamish River where the March 2014 slide occurred, erosion at the base of the slope from the river flow further contributes to slope instability.[53] Such conditions have created an extensive series of landslide complexes on both sides of the Stillaguamish valley. Additional benches on the margin of Whitman Bench are due to deep-seated slumping of large blocks, which also creates planes of weakness for future slippage and channels for water infiltration."
    2�14 Oso mudslide - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Thanks for posting Miguels- vulnerable landscapes...

    I wonder if such finding will lead to restrictions on new construction.
    I doubt it- Jersey coastal barrier islands have been know to be essentially over wash zones for 75 years- this didn't stop tens of billions of property value being installed there and a remarkable wringing of hands when the inevitable happens and the properties are 'over washed' during coastal flooding..


    Are you making headway with the pipe fitup Elliot?

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    The geology between the Oso area and the Wenatchee area are different. We did not have the glacier in this area. I can give you a link to a great video on the geology of the area and the Missoula Floods. Wenatchee Ice Age Floods: Downtown Geology Lecture Series - YouTube The site is close to the edge of the basalt flows but is on sandstone.

    I am waiting for a connection drawing someone promised to send. I am also waiting on a price on some used pipe in Idaho. We will be testing the process as soon as we get enough pipe.
    Elliott

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    Thanks.

    In this sort of context, will vertical wick drains be a option as the site is stabilized?
    I suppose this would strongly depend on the lamina of the underlying hill- "water table" is not present in the same sense as flat land reclamation efforts via wick drains?


    Also-

    Have you beaten down all the normal doors to try to garner support for the project?

    -Contact the authors and research principles from the paper cited above to see what current or upcoming research efforts might be afoot to which your site may be added?

    -Contact academia to find which university departments and researchers are investigating this area (WA state must have a killer geology dept?)

    -Availed yourself to such researchers to see if they may underwrite the site as a research project and thus be able to source funding.

    -Contact the large business who specialize in this sort of remediation work- they may have surplus material etc which could be let out in exchange for citation of being principles in this?
    (Projects - US Wick Drain)

    -Contact state DOT for material- a bit of pipe is no doubt sitting as surplus somewhere...

    -Name the project and formalize it somehow as a effort to contribute to the knowledge base for a state wide initiative to investigate the issue.
    > Though in your 'backyard' this is a serious concern in the state and has high public awareness after the Oso disaster..<


    I served as a intern on the Maine coast doing fisheries research during my university days.
    A simple call from a local community was enough for the professor to move the personnel and equipment we had to see if we could assist in identifying a problem they had.

    It could well be that similar assistance could be forthcoming with the right contacts.

    The worse which might occur is a temporary invasion from young lasses from some intern program stomping about the place in mud boots and short shorts.... Ah the mind wanders..LOL
    Last edited by Trboatworks; 05-27-2016 at 09:19 AM.

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    sirelliott I replied in private messaging

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    I'm revisiting this 2-year-old thread to add some photos of what we have to deal with in the Pacific Northwest for those elsewhere in the country (and world).

    This is US Highway 101 in Curry County, Oregon. It suffers minor mudslides every year (Curry County gets 75 to 80 inches of rain in about 5 months), and the whole roadbed slides down hill like this about once a decade. Photo credits KBCY and Tidewater Contractors.

    For a while recently this slide was moving at about 1 foot per hour. They don't even attempt temporary gravel fills until it slows to 3 inches per hour. I know that I would not like to be operating heavy machinery on an active landslide, but at least this one is extremely unlikely to turn into anything like an avalanche.

    [Added in edit] The Oregon DOT is not a bunch of idiots, by the way. Rebuilding the road every decade is well understood to be the most cost effective solution.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 20190302_us101_hooskanaden_lookingsouth_kcby.jpg   us101_tidewater.jpg  

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    Honestly some simple drainage under the rebuilt road and further down the hill will stop that from happening, not sure how much perforated pipe is there but over here its pretty dang cheap compared to a few hundred meters of road bed.


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